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Vintage DD turntables. Are we living dangerously?

I have just acquired a 32 year old JVC/Victor TT-101 DD turntable after having its lesser brother, the TT-81 for the last year.
TT-101
This is one of the great DD designs made at a time when the giant Japanese electronics companies like Technics, Denon, JVC/Victor and Pioneer could pour millions of dollars into 'flagship' models to 'enhance' their lower range models which often sold in the millions.
Because of their complexity however.......if they malfunction.....parts are 'unobtanium'....and they often cannot be repaired.
halcro
jpjones3318's avatar
jpjones3318
149 posts
 
Hi Misha,

Never had my hands on an SL-10 or 15, though I certainly wouldn't mind playing with one. I’ve limited my collection, for the most part, to the absolute statement ’tables from the Japanese manufacturers, though I may sneak an EMT in the mix.

These days I play with other ’tables by repairing them, if I’ve the time.
chakster's avatar
chakster
6,144 posts
 
@lewm 
Mine was on eBay as part of a QL10 ensemble, which is a TT101 set into the top line Victor plinth and bearing a Victor UA7045 tonearm. The seller was honest enough to admit that the turntable was not working.  I was willing to pay no more than $600 for it, on the premise that the tonearm alone is worth about that much.  To my surprise, I won the auction at that price.  Moreover, all pieces are in mint condition.

Good price, another lot like this sold for $950 (non-working) last year.  

lewm
13,583 posts
 
Chakster, You asked about testing a TT101 by running it continuously. One guy who put himself out there as a DD repair expert took my TT101, plugged it in at his shop (or so he told me) and ran it for two weeks, with no issues.  He then sent it back to me with the notation that it was not broken.  Fact is, my problem was always intermittent.  I had provided him with a detailed description of the problem, including the fact that it was intermittent, a priori, both verbally on the phone and in the context of a note that I enclosed with the turntable when I shipped it to him.  But like many smug auto mechanics, and some doctors (I am embarrassed to say), he did not pay any attention to the information he was given. Needless to say, fresh out of the box from his shop and installed into my system, the problem was immediately evident once again.  (For a while, my TT101 would work in our kitchen, where there is no audio system; I would then bring it to the basement to use in my secondary system, and down there, it would crash.  We entertained thoughts of a weird glitch on the AC line in the basement, during that phase.) So, no, I don't necessarily assume that running the turntable for months on end is either a good idea or proof of its flawless performance.  The ever kind and patient Bill Thalmann also could not make my TT101 fail in his shop on his workbench, which precluded his solving the problem.  But Bill does pay attention to what customers tell him, and he has a sense of humor.  By the time I found JP and sent it off to NYC, the "intermittent" problem had become much more constant.  Which actually helped JP to find the occult fracture in my "fragile" PCB.

(Problem was as follows: TT101 would start and go to 33.33 on the tach. Within a minute or less, it would then start to hunt for speed, showing 33.34, then 33.32.  Shortly thereafter, it would stall out; the tach would go blank, and the platter would coast to a halt. The electronic brake would not activate.  In about a minute, you could start it up again, and it would go through the same sequence.)
best-groove's avatar
best-groove
847 posts
 
@lewn

Such a subtle problem may indicate some cold welding, but it is too long to rework all the welds.
chakster's avatar
chakster
6,144 posts
 
Finished this big thread and made my notes regarding different TT-101s samples, owned by several people here. Maybe i was too optimictic when i ordered mine, but after reading all comments i’m not so happy about it. The unit if from one owner and rarely used, perfect condition, but must be fixed.

The situation described below by Lew is exactly what’s going on with my Victor TT-101 right now:

@lewm
There is no problem in terms of displaying 33.33 or 45.00. It goes right up to display those two speeds and holds those numbers firmly. The problem is that occasionally it will go into its typical failure mode after 3-4 minutes: the tach lights go out, except for the decimal point, and the platter coasts to a stop (no brake effect). It’s as if someone pulled the plug, except the power lights are all "on". If you then re-start, it will work fine, as if nothing bad had happened... The problem with my TT101 seems at the moment only to have been a tiny crack in the main PCB, right near the edge. JP thinks it occurred during manufacture, 30-odd years ago. The circuit was only maintained by solder, and once the solder cracked (invisibly, I might add), the result was a fault in TT101 function that was manifested intermittently, depending upon stress on that PCB. There was no need to replace the SC3042 chip in mine or indeed any of the discrete transistors. Great work by JP to find this problem, only made possible by the fact that the thing finally malfunctioned in the presence of a smart guy who knew how to trace down the cause. Other such problems are being searched for, just as a precaution before I get it back. I hope this is not premature, but I am very pleased.

It’s my first day to plug it and turn in on, no promlem with speed stability at all, despite the fact that it takes 2 second before the digits on display turning from 0.00 to 33.33 or 45.00 Pitch works fine, stop button works fine, power button works fine too. But i can only run it for 15 minutes, sometimes only for 1 minutу (as described by Lewm above). Actually right now it's still spinnin' for 30 min. Maybe burn-in process is important and it will run longer. Sadly i’m not in USA to send it @jpjones3318 and his time is limited now. Lew has mentioned Tuchan’s tech in Germany which is much closer.

@banquo363
On my understanding of what he told me, the boards used on the victor are ‘eyelet boards’. The solder connections through such boards tended to suffer cracking. This is what happened to mine. Some of the connections are heat sensitive, and that’s why I experienced the partial resurrection a few weeks back after leaving the unit on. The cracking is not necessarily evident to the naked eye, but after resoldering the boards, the table now works flawlessly. It should be noted that changing the power supply capacitors didn’t fix any of my troubles, but some of them appeared to be leaking so it was a good idea to do so. After nearly a year of fruitless search for someone to fix my ailing Victor tt 101, I found the man of my audio dreams. His name is Dave Brown http://modularsynthesis.com/ .

Second "man of audio dreams" is also in USA, too far.

@halcro and @downunder
Glad Chris (Kimil) helped you Downunder. His ingenuity, understanding and competence in all things audio are unequalled in my experience... I took back my TT-101 to have him adjust the variable resistors for the platter brake system. As I discovered....Victor added this feature to allow for the differing weights of various mats...and as I changed to only a thin Victor pigskin mat directly placed on the aluminium platter.....the brake system didn’t perform as required. It took Chris precisely 20 minutes to adjust them ( one for 33.3rpm and one for 45rpm). No charge...and they work perfectly.. I would waste no time in having him replace all the electrolytics in your P3. Since my TT-101 had its done....the speeds are consistently perfect.

I assume Chris Kemil is Australian, well, keeping in mind the shipping price for my CU-180 for Downunder i assume it will be extremely expensive to ship the TT-101 to Oz.

SO WHAT CAN I DO? Is that require some sort fo special knowlegde or experience to fix it locally with some tech?


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