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Considering switching from Audio Research to PrimaLuna, troube with VS115 amp

Hello everyone, I have question that I hope some of you either can answer or have an opinion on. Ever since I was 17, I have always wanted to own Audio Research equipment. I’m 56 now, and finally was able to fulfill my life long dream. My first acquisition was an ARC LS15 pre-amp bought here used in mint condition. I paired it with a Vincent 331MK hybrid amp also bought here used in mint condition. The resulting sound was impressive. After that, I started looking for an ARC amp I could afford. The resulting search found me an ARC VS115 amp also here in used, awesome condition. This is where my problems and my doubts started. Upon hooking up the amp to my system, a tube in the left channel arced and blew a resistor. I had to take the amp to an ARC dealer and he installed a new resistor and suggested I buy all new tubes from ARC for the amp. I did and when I got back home, I again hooked up the amp and immediately upon turning the amp on, I started to hear thumping sounds coming from my left speaker, then, two left channel output tubes started to glow a very bright orange, and then white smoke started to rise from one of the tube sockets. I immediately turned the amp off. I called the dealer and he suggested I mail the unit back to ARC. I did and I am now waiting to see what they say.

During this time, I started to search out other brands and came across one called PrimaLuna. I have watched their videos and seen them compared to ARC equipment. Their build quality seems to be superior to ARC and the reviews are over the top. I am looking at their Dialogue Premium HP amp and their Dialogue Premium pre-amp. For what they cost, considering how they are built and supposedly sound compared to units costing 3 to 4 times their price, they almost seem too good to be true. Anyway, my bubble has been burst, and in simple terms, I am considering jumping ship and going with another company instead of ARC, despite all those years of drooling and waiting.

My main question is this, is there anyone out there that either owns PrimaLuna or has had experience with the equipment and can give me their opinion on owning and using it. Then, my second question is how does PrimaLuna really compare to other high end equipment such as ARC. Kevin Deal in his videos on PrimaLuna makes a very compelling case for the equipment. In one video, he compares an ARC LS17SE to the PrimaLuna pre-amp.

My last question is in regards to my ARC VS115 amp problems. Anyone have an opinion on what is going on with my amp or a VS115 in general. For those of you who want to know what else is in my system, I am using KEF 104ab speakers, a Cambridge Azur 752BD Blu-ray player as my CD player, Morrow Audio Cables and I am considering getting the Sony HAP-Z1ES music player for my digital files.

I greatly appreciate all who take the time to comment and give their opinions. I will be glad to answer any questions you may ask or provide additional. Thanks for your help. Steve.


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fsonicsmith's avatar
fsonicsmith
964 posts
 
I confess to not having heard the Dialogue Premium. Watch Fremer's videos of the ARC factory tour on youtube. It takes a week to hand-build a Ref 6 at AR's Minnesota factory. Every transistor is stuffed and soldered by hand, all assembly in every other aspect is by hand, parts are not only proprietary but are not shared from one model to the next, and after each piece gets measured, it does not leave the factory until Warren Gehl listens to it. Do you think that's the way of things with PL? Cheap labor saves a lot of money but there are far larger differences that account for the price differential. Point to point is very nice, It does not make one piece of gear better than another. 
aolmrd1241
1,042 posts
 
I have not heard an ARC Ref 6. I am sure that it sounds great. But...way out of my price league. I do know for sure though...that at five times the cost of the PL...I would bet dollars to donuts it certainly does not sound "five times better" than the PL.
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samzx12
1,220 posts
 
Fsonicsmith you bring up some great points and thank you. I had no idea how long it takes to build from start to finish a Ref 6 however, as pointed out above I doubt it sounds five times better. Congrats if you can afford ARC these days but I sure can't. They made damn sure of it lol. Their business model totally changed and it's covered extensively in a not so long ago thread. 
ronrags's avatar
ronrags
282 posts
 
I'm no audio expert but what really counts is how the music sounds to an individual and/ or the synergy between equipment. In the 40 plus years I've owned various SS integrated amps and separates including Pass, Classe, Modwright and Hegel. Each had its own unique sound qualities. Most sounded smooth and a black background which can be attributed to low distortion. A few years ago my curiosity bit me so I purchased the Primaluna Dialogue Premium Int from our friend Kevin. Wow I couldn't believe what I was missing all these years. The sound filled my room without cranking up the volume and the midrange was glorious compared to SS.  What really counts it how it sounds and makes me feel and not the specs!

I could have easily purchased more expensive tube equipment as I did with the SS equipment but I was quite satisfied with the overall sound.  What I appreciate mostly about PL is the various tubes that can be used, the auto bias and construction. Kevin helped me tweak the sound of the amp by recommending Cifte NOS 12AU7 and the GL KT77 tubes. I couldn't more happier with my set-up.
fsonicsmith's avatar
fsonicsmith
964 posts
 
I have not heard an ARC Ref 6. I am sure that it sounds great. But...way out of my price league. I do know for sure though...that at five times the cost of the PL...I would bet dollars to donuts it certainly does not sound "five times better" than the PL.

You sound like a good guy aolmrd1241. Like that silly commercial on TV where the lady is talking to her clone on the phone, "I like you". Without a doubt there is not a 5x difference in SQ. You know that on multiple levels. I was strongly considering the PL Dialogue Premium with a pair of the Dialogue Premiums set up as monoblocks. I even talked to Kevin Deal about them-naturally he did all the talking :-) (funny if you know KD). I would love to have auditioned them in my room. I was impressed when JA was reviewing a set of high end speakers (the new lower priced Magico?) and couldn't get the bass to sound right til he tried swapping the $3400 PL integrated into the system in place of far more expensive gear. The one remaining brick and mortar shop in my area is both an AR and PL dealer and the main guy at that shop owns AR gear (and happens to be an expert on VPI too). They stock neither as it seems home theater gear keeps the lights on. Even he has not heard the amps but has sold and listened to the pre. I will stop there. I fully understand those who question the prices of AR gear-I harbor a little of that thought too. They even do their very best to prevent any AD from offering any discount! And on top of all that, I think most would agree that they have released a flop or three in their 47 year history. Read Charles Hansen's comments about his latest amplification-he admits that until recently he failed to understand just why great tubed gear is magical and failed to prioritize that sound in his solid state gear. The magic of AR's top gear is that it has that magic without going overboard. That quality is very rare. 
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