Considering switching from Audio Research to PrimaLuna, troube with VS115 amp

I think unfortunately some of the hate for Primaluna comes because of the egomaniac rude spokesman.

As far as the Harmonic Distortion with the Primaluna pre amp / amps if you can detect it and bothers you it, then simply turn on Triode Mode and its gone. If Primaluna paid for the reviews they get, then why did they allow the negative part about the harmonic distortion to be revealed???

Both Primaluna products and Audio Research are excellent but one is affordable and one is not.

I confess to not having heard the Dialogue Premium. Watch Fremer’s videos of the ARC factory tour on youtube. It takes a week to hand-build a Ref 6 at AR’s Minnesota factory. Every transistor is stuffed and soldered by hand, all assembly in every other aspect is by hand, parts are not only proprietary but are not shared from one model to the next, and after each piece gets measured, it does not leave the factory until Warren Gehl listens to it. Do you think that’s the way of things with PL? Cheap labor saves a lot of money but there are far larger differences that account for the price differential. Point to point is very nice, It does not make one piece of gear better than another
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Well that’s not true. They make a point that the output transformers are the same on the Ref 75 and VSI75. Output transformers are the single most important part of any tube amp. Nothing wrong with sharing parts. I’m sure they share many.

It’s just engineering and parts guys. There is no magic to ANY of this. I saw that MIT box they are offering reviewed in the new TAS for $80,000 and they say it takes 200 hours to built. I’m sure it works. But your employees solder very slow. There is so much puffery in this business now it’s really making me shake my head. There are more nuclear submarine scientists with top secret clearance in high end audio than you can shake a stick at. All of them do things that require engineering so advanced they can’t share it with anybody. Including you. Just trust me and give me your money. After doing this for a living for over 40 years, I’ve gotten a little grumpy with old age I guess.

As to the build quality of PrimaLuna, it far exceeds any brand mentioned thus far. It’s simply a fact if you look at the parts and how they are built.

And reviewers agree. I think that one of the most experienced tube audio reviewers writing today is Stereophile’s Art Dudley. He likes expensive stuff, but when he reviewed a PrimaLuna he said:

"I’ve never seen a better-built amp: ...Someone made this as if it mattered."

The new line is so far more advanced than what he reviewed. As to how it’s built, the assembly is done in a factory that is a division of an Aerospace manufacturer. Every part going in is PrimaLuna’s alone, and tightly controlled by the Netherlands, with more parts in the signal path from Japan and Europe than any brand I know of.

Swiss made silver-plated OFC wiring, Alps Blue Velvet volume control, Takman audiophile grade resistors, and Fujistu relays and Nichicon caps all from Japan. Mundorf Mcap Evo Silver Gold capacitors from Germany. Every completed product goes into a robotic arm where it is rotated into six positions and measured while playing test tones.

Regardless ...all these products sound great. That’s not a tall order. What I would like is to invite some Audiogoners over to listen and they can post their own honest opinion. Is anyone of you here in Southern California?

Aniwolfe makes a great point. Turn it on triode and it all goes away. I completely forgot about that after reading the long post on harmonic distortion. 

Thanks for the nice compliment fsonicsmith. More civility in these forums can go a long way towards the end goal of...great music in our homes.



Kevin...Don’t forget about Dick Olsher!!! One of the finest audio reviewers I have ever had the pleasure of reading in my entire audiophile life. He gets it...

From his review of the Dialogue Premium preamp...Enjoy!

"The Dialogue Premium line preamp strikes me as one of the best things PrimaLuna has ever done. In particular, purity of expression and tonal realism are two of its strongest sonic assets. The incremental improvements to the Dialogue Three have borne fruit. The Premium version is now able to swim with and compete effectively against high-end’s cost-no-object heavyweights. And that, my fellow audiophiles, is a rarity. If you’re looking for a basic line preamp that is sanely priced and offers genuine tube magic, this is it! An enthusiastic two thumbs up recommendation!"

www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/1014/PrimaLuna_Dialogue_Premium_Preamplifier.htm

I'm biased (pun) as hell. After strongly considering the PL Dialogue and AR LS28 I decided to go whole hog with the Ref 6 which I paid for but don't even have yet! Next week. I hope to get an ARC Ref 150SE too. I can't afford either but my sons are grown and through college and my view is that it's all gravy after that. At 58 I decided life is short. I've done a lot of relatively worthless research (pun again) but there is no substitute for listening in one's own room with own associated gear. This entire dialogue (arghh) has gone a bit sideways. It was never about comparing ARC's best with PL and I think I'm to blame for that. OP, I own a VS110 and it's built like a tank but yes, resistors fail on purpose with tube arc (double arghh) and you need to find a local technician to replace the resistor. Normally this is so routine that even enthusiasts good with a soldering iron and who have seen it done once can do it. Granted, your ultimate problem warrants a trip to Minnesota and it's a shame you lost so much on tubes. If by any chance you decide to keep the VS115 you want to replace the driver tubes with Russian Military grade 6H30's and the output tubes with Sovtek 6550's from Kevin. The output tubes at $40 each are a bargain! I tried much more expensive output tubes in my VS110 and it was Kevin who suggested the less expensive Sovteks and my SQ and reliability went up. Kevin does know his stuff. So back to ARC Ref stuff-we enthusiasts buy based on perceived quality and looks. It becomes a belief system. What can I say, in ARC I trust. Oh, one last thing Kevin, should you happen to see this; twice now you've mentioned this six-position testing regimen. What in the hell does that have to do with anything? Do gravitational forces effect electrons flowing through a piece of kit? Now you sound like one of those self-proclaimed space/aerocraft engineers! These are NOT chronometers! (I am a watch guy too). Oh, I lied. One more thing-by state of the art standards, Alps Blue Velvet volume controls are universally viewed as mediocre/undesirable. With any pre-amp, the volume control is absolutely critical.