2. home-theater
  3. 1149907858

Upgrading HT Receiver and Speakers

Hi All, I’ve been looking into upgrading my current home theatre system, and have spoken with some retailers around the area I live, and would like to ask some questions of actual owners if that’s okay?

I live in Western Canada, my bonus room is fairly enclosed at 16ft long (including 2ft depth shelving), 12 feet wide, and a 9ft ceiling.

My primary use is movies (around 90%), but will increase music listening with a decent system!

I am limited to a 5.1 bookshelf system due to pre-wired built in home entertainment center, rear speakers are in the corners, so no dipoles.

Retailer options in my area and product suggestions, prices between retailers have come in around +-$500 from each other:

Retailer 1
Rotel 1057 Receiver, B&W CM1's and CMC center, REL subwoofer, (or B&W 602S3's with matching center)

Retailer 2
Arcam AVR-300,Totem Rainmakers, matching center, and DefTech Supercube 2 Sub, (or def tech bookshelves?)

Retailer 3
Arcam AVR-300, Quad 12L front, Quad 11L rear, matching center, HSU VTF2 Sub

Retailer 4
Sherwood Newcastle R865, Paradigm Studio 20's front and rear, CC570 center, and PW2100 sub

Now the questions and opinions that I’d be grateful to hear answers for:
1) Which combination provides the highest level of detail without being bright/forward if you’ve listened to the above?

2) Cost vs quality benefit: are you paying more for B&W & Quad vs Paradigm due to country of manufacturer, and therefore would the similar price of the paradigms be indicative of better build quality and sound over the aforementioned 2? The same goes for the receivers, but I have been reading great things about the Arcam.

3) Has anyone compared the B&W CM1's to the 602S3's?

4) Why are bookshelves better on stands vs an actual shelf? Are there any recommendations to remedy this since I'm stuck with shelves?

5) I think we pay a little more in Canada due to lower volume sales than the USA, but how do the prices sound of the above combos compare?

I’m thinking it would be good to stick with one retailer as all have been very helpful when I’ve spoken to them, but they all (understandably) have their personal biases on the equipment they are selling. I will be calling them to set up demo’s to have a listen, but the better prepared I am with information, the better I’ll feel.

Thank you all so much from a former forum lurker……
britcanuck
britcanuck OP
3 posts
 
Thanks for your response Markphd, and I feel a little more comfortable, however,I think your answer to my question 4 has me quite worried now. This is a fair chunk of change for me to drop on a system that isn't going to perform the way it should with the speakers going on shelves.

Unfortunately, I can't wall mount the speakers. The home entertainment unit is shaped in drywall, with oak shelving. The shelves are 22" wide and 24" deep. Probably easier to attach a picture if possible.

I dropped by one of the big box stores and listened to the Totem Dreamcatchers in one of their home theatre rooms. The salesperson also had some similar sized bookshelves from Energy to compare them too, and I was amazed at the difference. We watched a scene from my son's favorite movie Robots, and the detail difference was very good with the Totems versus the Energy's. I also know what I'm missing now with my current sub/sat speaker system.

Having listened to the Rainmakers in a higher end store some time back (when I was first thinking of buying just new speakers and realized I'd have to include a new receiver in my upgrade) I was very impressed with them, but would like to hear them with the center channel as well with a movie playing.

I would also still like to listen to the others in my list. I see Quad's are actually being discussed in the Speakers section of the forum, and seem to be very well regarded. I imagine my shelves wouldn't do them justice though.

Perhaps I should hold off on buying the higher end equipment until I can develop a dedicated sound room (basement), and go with something cheaper like the dreamcatchers and a newer receiver from the big box stores.

I forgot to mention, that I would rarely be cranking the volumes (to reference levels if the term is correct????) since our little guy would be sleeping when we watch most films. So detail at a lower volume is an important factor as well. When he's up and wants to watch Robots or play xbox, that's a different story. :)

Thanks again for your time
markphd
667 posts
 
Hello again.

I thought that it was interesting when you said that you heard the Totem and the Energy speakers at the same store. Where I live, one of the well known high end stores also carries both Totem and Energy, as well as Arcam. That's where I heard the Arcam/Totem combination. I would anticipate that the difference you heard between Totem and Energy would be what you would hear if you compared Totem to Paradigm. That's one of the reasons I suggested that Retailer 2's system would be a bit better than Retailer 4's.

One other point on the speakers being placed in the wall unit. Ask the retailers what they think about the bookshelf placement for the models they carry. It's not going to be as good as a stand mount, but it may still sound pretty good. For example, if the speaker is a sealed unit (i.e. no port), there will not be any backwave bouncing around in the wall unit. And if you put the speaker on some cones to try to isolate vibrations into the wall unit, the speaker may perform in a satisfactory manner. In addition, even if the speaker does have a port, the speaker designer may have intended that it be placed close to a back wall in order to reinforce the bass. If the particular model is such a speaker, having it close to the back of the wall unit may not be too bad. You would still be advised to put it on some cones on the shelf however.

The point you made in the last paragraph about low volume performance is also important. I find that the performance of some speakers is quite different when played at low versus high volume level. The monitors which I have need a little bit of volume before they start to perform really well.
dzigon
25 posts
 
Britcanuck,

If you decide not to go high end until you have your dedicated room give a listen to the Def Tech Power Monitors. They are bookshelf with built in subs. The soundstage and low end is pretty impressive for a bookshelve speaker. You could use them as l/r/c and the def tech bpx2 surrounds(bipole). You could even hold off on the sub if you wanted to..
rysa4
266 posts
 
Howdy. Retailer two and four have the best HT combos out of that bunch in my opnion, except for the sub. I'd go woth 2 or 4 but tkae that rel sub out of number 1 and put it into one of the other two options.
d_edwards
204 posts
 
You're spending too much on the receivers in 2 & 3, you don't need the 300 and its bad advice not to buy seperates at that price point.

Drop down the Arcam line to the lower receivers and move up to Totem Model 1's. This combo will outperform any of the above suggestions by a serious noticeable margin. And will give you a stellar music system simultaneously.

This combo will serve you better, and clearly put the Totem system out where none of the other manufacturers can touch them.

Retailers 1-3-4 are very underwhelming ordinary systems. Sherwood and Paradigm is a headahce in the making so is Rotel and B&W. The Paradigms would work well with the Arcams should you want to shift you budget down considerably.

Only 2 has potential to be great with the above advice.

Get the HSU Subwoofer from retailer 3, its the best sub on the list. Hope that helped.
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