2. amps-preamps
  3. 129832-98419

Considering switching from Audio Research to PrimaLuna, troube with VS115 amp

Hello everyone, I have question that I hope some of you either can answer or have an opinion on. Ever since I was 17, I have always wanted to own Audio Research equipment. I’m 56 now, and finally was able to fulfill my life long dream. My first acquisition was an ARC LS15 pre-amp bought here used in mint condition. I paired it with a Vincent 331MK hybrid amp also bought here used in mint condition. The resulting sound was impressive. After that, I started looking for an ARC amp I could afford. The resulting search found me an ARC VS115 amp also here in used, awesome condition. This is where my problems and my doubts started. Upon hooking up the amp to my system, a tube in the left channel arced and blew a resistor. I had to take the amp to an ARC dealer and he installed a new resistor and suggested I buy all new tubes from ARC for the amp. I did and when I got back home, I again hooked up the amp and immediately upon turning the amp on, I started to hear thumping sounds coming from my left speaker, then, two left channel output tubes started to glow a very bright orange, and then white smoke started to rise from one of the tube sockets. I immediately turned the amp off. I called the dealer and he suggested I mail the unit back to ARC. I did and I am now waiting to see what they say.

During this time, I started to search out other brands and came across one called PrimaLuna. I have watched their videos and seen them compared to ARC equipment. Their build quality seems to be superior to ARC and the reviews are over the top. I am looking at their Dialogue Premium HP amp and their Dialogue Premium pre-amp. For what they cost, considering how they are built and supposedly sound compared to units costing 3 to 4 times their price, they almost seem too good to be true. Anyway, my bubble has been burst, and in simple terms, I am considering jumping ship and going with another company instead of ARC, despite all those years of drooling and waiting.

My main question is this, is there anyone out there that either owns PrimaLuna or has had experience with the equipment and can give me their opinion on owning and using it. Then, my second question is how does PrimaLuna really compare to other high end equipment such as ARC. Kevin Deal in his videos on PrimaLuna makes a very compelling case for the equipment. In one video, he compares an ARC LS17SE to the PrimaLuna pre-amp.

My last question is in regards to my ARC VS115 amp problems. Anyone have an opinion on what is going on with my amp or a VS115 in general. For those of you who want to know what else is in my system, I am using KEF 104ab speakers, a Cambridge Azur 752BD Blu-ray player as my CD player, Morrow Audio Cables and I am considering getting the Sony HAP-Z1ES music player for my digital files.

I greatly appreciate all who take the time to comment and give their opinions. I will be glad to answer any questions you may ask or provide additional. Thanks for your help. Steve.


128x128skyhawk51
raindance
56 posts
 
One more thing from an old tube head: What is your mains voltage? Have you measured it? I have found it varies quite widely - in my area it goes as high as 127 volts at times. So I use a simple mains voltage regulator in front of my tube gear - APC makes a couple - the Line-R series is what I have. The cool thing with it is you can switch it to provide a lower voltage all the time and this will run your amp a little cooler in absolute terms. Yes, it will slightly shift operating points, etc, blah blah - BUT it may be the reliability fix that you need. And it is cheap.
jbhiller's avatar
jbhiller
1,430 posts
 
Please feel free to ignore this question if it's hijacking the thread too much.  Given folks are commenting on the quality of tube amps out there...

I'm super curious to know if you folks have any intel/opinions on Icon Audio tube amplifiers?  They are a British company and their products are available at Music Direct.  They look to be of quality but I haven't stumbled on users or reviews of them. 
facten
2,882 posts
 
Tend to agree with parsons, not sure why the tube compliment in the a/b test will not be the same. Why would you want to have that variant enter into the equation and possibly bias the outcome  given what folks familiarity, likes, etc may be with one tube type or the other.


raindance
56 posts
 
jbhiller - Icon has been selling rebranded Chinese amps for a long time, not sure if that has changed. I tried one when I was living in the UK and it was reliable, but let down by very cheap output transformers giving it a lightweight sound. It was about 11 years ago, so things may have changed since then. It was a 40 x 40 watt push pull EL34 design based loosely on a Dynaco. If I recall correctly it used cathode bias, making the power output spec a little ambitious. It got solidly spanked by a very cheap Yarland push pull EL84 amp (the same amp that Sophia sells as the Baby - although they may use slightly better parts).
upscaleaudio's avatar
Ag insider logo xs@2x
upscaleaudio
258 posts
 

Kevin is just plain wrong-amps are at their heart the simplest of electronics- not preamps. Amps do nothing more than regulate the energy coming out of your wall.

The opposite is true.  Read everything I've said and I can tell you that you can make a DECENT tube preamp for $1500 that sounds damn good.  Cary made one called the AE-3DJH and it benched better than most.  Tube preamps are SIMPLE and that's why manufacturers are over-charging customers with big empty boxes.  

Now you get to the details.  What kind of regulation, rectifying the AC, hybrid or not, dual mono.  But I'll be the first to admit big diminishing returns and that's exactly why doing a level matched A/B will be less telling.  

Tube amps are completely different, and it's harder to cheat.  The differences are much greater between the good and bad.  And they can be bucks up and bad.   Amps don't "regulate power from the wall."    Output transformers are the key, and they are half art, half science.  And expensive....which is why companies looking to maximize profit use cheap (and small) power AND output transformers.  They are the single largest cost.  

As to the A/B test, if you want double blind I can try to hide the wires.  I would expect the more expensive amp to benefit from NOT being double blind, as people will be impressed.  As to which tubes, the idea is to compare stock with stock.  I'm not going to upgrade the tubes on the PrimaLuna.  It negates what this is about.  Would the PrimaLuna benefit from dropping in $400 worth of KT150's?  I suppose.   But what good does that do?  It muddies the water.      
More to discover