Considering switching from Audio Research to PrimaLuna, troube with VS115 amp

Thanks for the write up btw. Appreciate your time.

You’re welcome @aniwolfe

I don’t think I need to address build quality. Or how they are built, or what "qualifies" as point to point.

I don’t mean to be a stickler, but respectfully Kevin, I think you do, since it’s in your advertising collateral.

BTW, my philosophy (others may differ) is that if a component is inside the box, it's in the signal path.  Then again, I also think that power cords make a difference ;-)

None of this is meant to cast aspersions on what is very likely a fine product (I recommended its audition). Benefiting from offshore manufacture, the Prima Luna’s construction looks like that of an amplifier costing three times its price.

My earlier post grew long, and I only implied another reason for PCB construction (apart from addressing circuit complexity) - to bring a product into a more affordable price class. If done intelligently, you can produce a very fine product.

One such component using PCB construction (which I heartily endorse) is Keith Herron’s VTPH-2 phono stage. If it were entirely hand-wired, its price would likely triple. I’d love to hear Keith’s original breadboard prototype of this phono stage. I’ll bet it’s quite special.

Congratulations on carrying a product with such value!

Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier Design

Good posts Thom and you are most accurate and thoughtful in your posts. I am a big fan of 100% point to point and tag strip tube builds. Hard to find these anymore as you know. I also like no electrolytic caps in the power supply...only film. Yes, this can make for a larger chassis and increased cost, but I hear the difference.

The VAC gear is circuit board is it not?

I looked at at your site and did not see any pricing on your new 300b amp. I think it is due out soon. Looks very interesting.

I don’t think I need to address build quality. Or how they are built, or what "qualifies" as point to point.

I don’t mean to be a stickler, but respectfully Kevin, I think you do, since it’s in your advertising collateral.

What I meant is it's been well recognized in literally every PrimaLuna review that they are built better than most any tube brand on the market regardless of price.  Most any brand.  Most any price. It's been written about over and over by the most technically adept magazine reviewers. Dick Olsher, John Atkinson, Art Dudley, Herb Reichert, and many others. Hence our latest magazine ads called "Preamp Fairy Dust" and our suggestion to customers to use Google images before dropping a dime on ANY HiFi purchase.  

Tube amps and preamps are simple and benefit most from point to point construction.  Having said that, there are some protection circuits we have that MUST be PCB.  Adaptive AutoBias is a big, complex  board  but it's not in the signal path. Our CD players and soon to be released DAC will of course have some PCB's and some point to point.  No way around that.  Our upcoming phono stage will most likely be the same way.     

High end audio prices are arbitrary and in many cases have zero to do with engineering and build costs.  Some big names charge as high a price as they can without losing sales, others that are new hope to build credibility by having a price so high it defies logic.  Wow!  It's expensive.  It must be good.  That, my friends, is the absolute truth.

I met with a manufacturer Tuesday that wants me to sell their product at Upscale.  They have raised their prices 25-30% every time they come out with something new while internally they are cheaper by my parts count.  I looked at them and asked "What's your next move?  When does this stop?"  Why not a small increase and better product?  

There are others that see that in the long run our industry is not doing itself a favor, and they hold the line and still make a decent living at it. Quicksilver, Rogue, and a few others.    Look at Klipsch Heritage speaker series as an example. They should be applauded and held up as a standard (FYI I don't sell them .... but I should)

My wife Laura says I'm grumpier with my graying hair.  She's probably right. I think I'll go yell at some kids to stay off my lawn.   
   

Your points are well taken, Kevin and I see that we’re basically counting angels on the head of a pin.

I agree with you about the arbitrariness of pricing in many instances, and would love to see Prima Luna whup some of the big names (withheld to protect the guilty).

High end audio prices are arbitrary and in many cases have zero to do with engineering and build costs.  Some big names charge as high a price as they can without losing sales, others that are new hope to build credibility by having a price so high it defies logic.  Wow!  It's expensive.  It must be good.  That, my friends, is the absolute truth.

This is a touchy subject I’d rather stay away from, because it’s something that really makes me grumpy.  Early in Galibier's history, we weren't taken seriously due to our value pricing.  Of course, that was a time when we were learning the ropes - priced far too low to make a profit with our turntables.  We had no clue as to the real cost of running a business ;-)

Quicksilver is another one of those brands which should be applauded for their value. Some of it is a matter of Mike Sanders pricing fairly, and the rest of it is due to him being a master at procurement (cost containment).

The VAC gear is circuit board is it not?

Hi @grannyring, I know they use at least some turret boards in his construction. I haven’t peeked under the hood in a while however.

Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier Design

I've been thinking of trying a pair of Klipsch Heritage Heresy IIIs (I have a pair of RELs so the 60hz low point bothers me not) which cost less than 2 grand a pair new (1500 or something "open box" shipped), they're made in the USA, and should be a great match for my Dennis Had Fire Bottle SEP "HO" (a HO...it's a HO) which has turned out to be the best sounding amp I've owned in 5 decades…a hand wired gem of an amp that cost around 1200 clams (actual clams, which I thought was a little strange), and is utterly a hand wired masterpiece of unobtainium (really…gotta grab 'em on Ebay when they show up, snooze you lose).