2. amps-preamps
  3. 1422195146

Move to tubes: Ayon Crossfire or Triton, various

I am contemplating a move to tubes from a solid state platform that I've loved for years with an Esoteric C-03 pre-amp and Edge NL 12.1 Stereo Amp driving Legacy AERIS speakers. See my system thread for details on the rest of the rig including interconnects, speaker cables and power conditioning/cords. Through a lot of conversations and admittedly, after reading alot of "Bugatti of Audio,..." type reviews on Ayon tube integrated and stereo tube amps, it seems that if I was aiming high (but within realm of possibility of me), my choices would be down to the Crossfire III or III PA and Triton III or III PA running in triode mode most of the time.

The C-03 and NL12.1 deliver performance, impact, dynamics, subtlety, musicality and imaging across the entire listening spectrum and frequency range based upon multiple years of owning them. They do many things that fit my personal prefs but I have heard many desirable things from moderate->expensive tube gear that I would like that much more of.

I'd be interested in feedback from people who have heard both the integrated and pure stereo versions of these products; given I love what the C-03 does for me as a pre-amp and MAY keep it in the chain, would you suggest;

- Crossfire or Triton as a baseline choice (and then III or III PA version each)?
- keep the Esoteric C-03 pre-amp and use the Ayon as pure stereo
- abandon the C-03 pre-amp as well as NL12.1 stereo SS Amp and go with an integrated amp version of the Crossfire III or Triton III?
- other Ayon offerings (Titan not reachable); see note on power reserves below....
- move up to the C-02 Master Soundworks new pre-amp from Esoteric and look at these or other pure stereo tube amps?

***I need XLR inputs....that culls out many tube amp offerings from what I have found....

Any other choices out there in the Ayon line or others I should be considering? The Legacy AERIS are incredibly efficient (96db or better) and are optimal 4-ohm loads, BUT I want power in reserve to serve dynamically challenging passages. I note that one of these Ayon models go to 35Khz, the other to 60Khz; which would you recommend based upon performance over the entire listening spectrum?

Thanks in advance, I know this will require some time to respond to; definitely appreciate the help and guidance!!!
128x128Ag insider logo xs@2xzephyr24069
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,993 posts
 
I would not call the speaker 'incredibly efficient', its sensitivity is 94 db but because it is also 4 ohms the actual efficiency is 91 db.

But that is not so hard to drive and since the deep bass is handled by a separate amp, I think our MA-1 could do the job (it also is a fully differential balanced amp with a balanced input).

FWIW, the Manley mentioned earlier in this thread, while an excellent amp, only has the XLR connection for convenience- despite the connector, its input is single-ended. If your source is conforms to the balanced standard (AES file 48), you may encounter a buzz with this amp.
zephyr24069's avatar
Ag insider logo xs@2x
zephyr24069 OP
1,245 posts
 
Thank you both for your suggestions.  I've actually moved past this question for my setup for now and decided to stay solid-state for the foreseeable future.  I find that S/N ratio, THD and Damping Factor (the higher the better, my current amp is a champ here; it also has separate input and output transformers and only 2 gain stages) and the ability to run true balanced to be as important to the sound I wish to achieve as power rating for amps, speaker efficiency,etc...

BTW...the Legacy AERIS are not rated 94 db, the actual metric is a bit higher. My current speakers are actually 91 db if memory serves so if I ever go with tubes, I'll make sure to remember the recommendations here.  Thanks!
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,993 posts
 
@zephyr24069 

I find that S/N ratio, THD and Damping Factor (the higher the better, my current amp is a champ here; it also has separate input and output transformers and only 2 gain stages)
There is no speaker made that needs more than about 20:1 in damping factor, FWIW. It is possible to overdamp a speaker. Also just FWIW, our amps are direct-coupled input and output and have only one gain stage  :)

The reason for going to tubes is to reduce harshness and increase detail, generally speaking. This is possible because even though tubes often do have more distortion, it is of a type that is not as audible as the 'minimal' distortion made by most solid state amps. The latter tends to be higher ordered harmonics, to which the ear is far more sensitive than the lower ordered harmonics that tubes often make (which depends mostly on the application, not the tubes themselves; our amps for example tend to lack the 2nd harmonic common with many tube amps). So as far as the ear is concerned, tubes make less distortion.

Its important to understand that the ear converts all forms of distortion into tonality. That is why the trace amounts of distortion that solid state amps make is perceived as brightness and hardness.

FWIW though the older Edge amps when Steven was with the company are some of the more musical solid state amps I've heard.
zephyr24069's avatar
Ag insider logo xs@2x
zephyr24069 OP
1,245 posts
 
@atmasphere : Great feedback, thank you very much.  I agree the NL 12.1, NL Ref, etc...were amazingly musical and did not have the typical solid state side effects; they were also (at least to my ears) dead neutral and injected no color or warmth of their own.  Tom and Steve were champs in their day designing and building cutting edge, great sounding gear.  I also am a fan of the big Karans although I never pulled that trigger given their lack of US distribution and service network.  The 2 times I was able to hear them were extremely impressive.  Today, my system is centered around an Esoteric A-02 stereo am; very "un-solid state" in how it sounds in my system but with the power, control/grip and dynamics (both micro and macro) that I love to hear.  I'm not saying tubes are out of the question ever, but for now, I'm focused on other things.  The MA-1 (MkIII) certainly looks like it would get the job done very well with numerous reviews spouting its praises, thank you for the recommendation. Can I assume you would also recommend the MA-2 MkIII and MA-3 (what a monster!)? Would these recommendations all hold for TAD R1 Mk2 speakers? (see my current virtual system). It might be good to grab the phone and give you a call :-)

@pepper1999 : Thank you again for your feedback; there are various Ayon models above Crossfire and Triton that also had/have my attention.  

Any opinions on Raven Shaman, Spirit or Silhouette monos?

atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,993 posts
 
@zephyr24069

The TAD seems like it should not be a problem by all the information I’ve been able to find. It does not look particularly difficult to drive by a tube amp.
More to discover