2 Channel Subwoofer connection

Yes mattmiller please explain your logic

Subs that use 4 (2 neg and 2 pos) wires from the amp to receive the signal is an old outdated way of running a sub, how can you say the active sub dosent see the 2 additional wires connected to it..it does, and it has to deal with it. I call this smoke and mirrors and subs hooked up in this way never integrate and your always adjusting knobs with every song. The REL’s dont connect this way they only send 3 wires (2 positive 1 neg) this way the amp really dosent see the sub because its running at 100,00 ohms! You set the REL and once its dialed in thats it, you dont fiddle with volume and crossover points ever! The REL is just there doing its job, and its very musical, anyone that thinks subs are for adding non directional bass has never heard a REL.

And NO i'm not a REL rep, I always hated Subs because of lousy connections and bad integration...until I found a REL Britania B2 10" in natural cherry. with upgraded (signalcable.com) spkon connection.

Matt M

Matt.
Talk to Richard Vandersteen. He can explain to you that a sub can work superbly in the way you say it can't. Yes, I have listened to a Rel Gibraltar 3 at length and the Vandy 2Wq will do everything the Rel does and more.

+1 mr_m   I have two Vandersteen 2wq subwoofers.  Using RV's top quality crossover that you set relative to the input impedance of the system amplifier, helps the subs to integrate seamlessly with the main speakers.  I have Vandy Treo CTs which are a full range speaker in their own right.  The subwoofers free the system amp of having to power the deepest bass as each sub. has a 300 watt amp. and the speaker cable hookup of the subs to the system amp allows the subs to see the amplifier output so that the sub sound integrates perfectly or nearly so, to the main speakers.

I have experimented with the integration notion by using the subs then disconnecting them and trying to identify the point at which the sub kicks in by ear.  I just can't find it.  The key to this kind of seamless sonic integration is to adjust the "Q" and level of the subs.  Once you get it right, you free the main speakers and power amp from providing deep bass, improving the dynamic ebb and flow of the music throughout the full frequency range of the music.  If you can establish proper speaker and sub. placement in your room, the speakers and subs just disappear.  It's all about the music now, no the gear reproducing it!

As far as REL goes, I have no experience with them but have read many many positive references to them on A'Gon and elsewhere.

Happy Listening!

Regarding three-wire vs. four-wire connection of a sub to the outputs of an amplifier:

In most stereo amplifiers (as opposed to monoblocks) the negative output terminals of the two channels are connected directly to the amp's circuit ground, and are therefore connected directly to each other within the amp. Exceptions to that are mainly amps whose outputs are balanced or bridged, since in those cases the negative output terminals have full-amplitude signals on them, as opposed to both terminals being connected to the amp's circuit ground.  Certain older class D designs that have substantial DC offsets on both their + and - output terminals are also exceptions.

When the three-wire cable that is used to connect the high level input of a REL sub is connected to the output of most stereo amps, one wire goes to the positive output terminal of one amp channel, another wire goes to the positive output terminal of the other amp channel, and the remaining wire (the ground wire, which is colored black) goes to the negative output terminal of either channel. The reason that works well is, as I said above, that with the exceptions I noted the two negative output terminals of the amp are connected directly together within the amp.

So if the high-level inputs of a single sub are connected to the outputs of most stereo amps a four-wire connection amounts to having a three-wire connection plus an additional connection to the amp's circuit ground in parallel with the ground wire of a three-wire connection. The load presented to the amp by the sub is the same in either case, and will be negligible assuming the sub is active (i.e., that it has a built-in amplifier).

Special considerations come into play if the outputs of the amp are balanced or bridged, or if monoblocks are being used, or in the case of certain older class D designs as I mentioned above.  In those cases, depending on the designs of the amp(s) and the sub, and on whether one sub or two is being used, specific connection approaches are necessary to avoid the possibilities of hum problems or even amplifier damage.  These issues are discussed in the manuals for most REL subs, and need to be considered regardless of whether the connection is via four wires or three.

Regards,
-- Al