Directionality of wire

kosst_amojan
@geoffkait

Yeah, you basically did say they can behave like diodes. That’s the entire Crux of your argument. A cable embodies 3 passive characteristics; capacitance, inductance, and impedance. Those properties remain consistent regardless of the direction of energy flow. So saying a length of wire can magically become directional is the exact same thing as saying it behaves in some way like a diode. The formulas that describe the behavior of a diode are how you’d have to describe a directional wire. But since those properties have never been actually demonstrated through any measurement, we can rightly conclude that a length of wire transmitting audio bandwidth AC is not directional in the slightest. The same goes for fuses.

>>>>>>I never said wires or cables act like diodes. Don’t put words in my mouth. You’re the only one saying that. Unfortunately for your argument, resistance of wires and cables measure differently depending on direction. Which is one way to determine proper direction. Another way is to listen. If you had done your homework prior to getting involved here you would have known that. God gave you two ears and one mouth for a reason.

jea48, that’s fascinating, all that stuff on break-in you just posted, but what does that have to do with the price of spinach? Well, OK, maybe there is one thing. You say Audioquest has built a large and successful high end cable company by making cables symmetrical. Yet, gentle readers, we know from this very thread Audioquest is one of the biggest proponents of wire and cable directionality based - according to them - on the physical asymmetry of the wire. Which is why Audioquest has been marking their cables including - and more to the point! - their SPEAKER CABLES for direction since like forever. Therein lies a great big old contradiction. Raise your hand if you need help. Talk among yourselves. Smoke if ya got em.

anyone here a scientist? Raise your hand if you are a scientist.

BTW, an engineer is explicitly NOT a scientist.

The two receive fundamentally different educations, right from the get go and throughout their training.

A scientist is trained in theory.

The engineer is trained in LAWS.

Both bits are the same, except a scientist is wired to question the theory, where the engineer is taught that these concepts are scientific law and inviolate.

The scientist is the only one of the two that is correctly trained.

The engineer is literally ~purposely~ mistrained so they won’t try to engineer a solution that is based on guesses. They are specifically taught not to think that way. Trained to ’engineer solutions’, NOT to deal with unknowns....Specifically to not deal with unknowns. I hope that is clear. You should never build a giant bridge, skyscraper, or rocket.. based on guesses and theory. Please and thank you. However, this mentality can and does bite scientific exploration on the ass. Repeatedly. The engineer tends to not understand that they are mistrained, as it rarely creates issue in their lives and they (some of them) can generally bully their way past the seeming roadblocks.

This is why some choose the endeavor of engineering over that of science theory and exploration. A mental mindset orientation thing. Just like all areas of chosen endeavor.

If you think I’m tying to be mean or confuse the issue, please go and ask the head of your local physics department at your local university. Please. You’ll get the same answer all the way up through Harvard, MIT, Max Plank institute, all of them will tell you that there are no laws and there is only theory...and that everything, everything under the sun... is subject to change and modification, if observation and then attempts at correlation/proofing... provide the path. But, importantly, that an inability to prove via extant methodologies... does NOT provide for falsification of the observation, just that no path to yay or nay --yet exists. THAT is science.

Only engineers and technicians get taught the scientific law bit. Nobody else.

So when we get this issue of "not being possible", or "not being real"or "it has to be a bunch of bunk and no one here uses science", you can bet your bottom dollar it is coming from an engineer or a technician, or someone who has no real scientific training at all.

Actually that whole premise is not true. I am an Engineer, aerospace type, Univ. of Virginia, Charlottesville, Va, but my curriculum was almost all theoretical propulsion and theoretical fluid dynamics. Statistical Thermodynmics and Indeterminate Structures are also very theoretical as were many other courses. So, it’s not really true, at least in my case and obviously many other cases, that engineers are not trained in theory.

You are right Geoff, it is a oversimplification, and not 100% true. It is a generalization, at best, but it’s aura hangs over the whole engineer vs scientist scenario.

It certainly started the way I speak of, back in Bavaria, in the 1760’s.

But if you give them room for a few to slip through, 100% will take the cheat.

the Germans found a way to get more boots on the ground, when it comes to competence in the sciences, the kind that can build and make.

Not everyone could be a exploring Renaissance man. so they came up with "the law, don’t question it" technique of training, and then they could get good ’makers’ out there, by a factor of 10-50x vs that of the exploring theoretician.

The trick was to do things, make things... with all the science they had discovered. This was a way of achieving that.

Builders, qualified and capable builders and getting it done in a scholastic environment in a reasonable amount of time with a reasonable rate of success..required a revamp of the real scientific method.

The birth of scientific law was and is synonymous with the birth of the societal slot of ’engineer’. Both really came into being in ~1760’s in Bavaria. The rest of the western world witnessed the success of this technique... and copied it.

And the quandary of this forum, were observation is ruled scientifically violating(by some) and therefore invalid, was born from that gestation/change/split in Bavaria.