Directionality of wire

Al, (almarg) response,

Yes, I see that now, Jim. He does not say, at least in that thread, that cables are directional; he is just addressing the wire itself. Yet it is also true, as we are saying, that the cable configuration he recommends would negate the intrinsic directionality he is attributing to the wire itself.

Yet it is also true, as we are saying, that the cable configuration he recommends would negate the intrinsic directionality he is attributing to the wire itself.

But do we really know that?

I need to search the archives on AA and look for any posts of Bob’s where he may have actually spoke of directionality of ICs using solid core conductors.

Al,
Question.
Does the hot/signal conductor, of an IC, hold any more importance carrying the audio signal from the source to the load than the ground/return conductor?
If yes please explain.
If not please explain.

Jim

almarg
7,423 posts                                                                         08-18-2017 7:59pm

As for the "why" of whatever intrinsic directionality wire may possess, I note that even he says "I don’t want to speculate why wire is directional." Although he also says that "it appears to be an FM distortion." FM distortion, phase distortion, and timing jitter are inter-related concepts. And as you alluded to, and I indicated earlier in the thread, timing jitter resulting from VSWR (reflection) effects figures to be the basis of directionality in digital cables. But I have no idea how at analog audio frequencies a symmetrically designed cable might introduce differing amounts of FM or phase distortion depending on which way it is connected.

I may try contacting John Curl next week and ask him his thoughts on the subject. I believe he still frequents the DIY audio forum.

Jim

Don grounding an interconnect at one end does nothing except possibly turn it into an antenna.

Huh? Not sure what you guys are arguing about. Obviously Bob thinks wire per se is very directional. He actually said extremely directional. The only question is if he’s right the way he places the directional wires in the cable - one wire in one direction and the other wire in the opposite direction. Why would he *intentionally* construct a cable to be non-optimal knowing wire is very directional? He wouldn’t. As I’ve stated previously, both wires should actualy be in the same direction, not opposite directions. You do not (rpt not) have to worry about any signal or current or voltage moving toward the wall outlet. Only the ones moving toward the speakers. That’s why fuses which have only a single wire are directional in AC circuits.

Of the Curl, Thompson, Crump CTC company members Bob had (by far) the best ears. That’s why his primary job at CTC was deciding which capacitors to use, which wire to use, which cables to use for the very advanced CTC Blowtorch preamp and the Bar B Que amplifier, the precursor of the JC 1 amp. Curl was the circuit guy, Thompson the topology guy. I was with Curl and Crump twice at CES, isolating the electronics including the Number Cruncher DAC with my Sub Hertz Nimbus iso platform.

Geoffkait 8-19-2017
Huh? Not sure what you guys are arguing about.

Jim and I are not arguing, Geoff.  We're having what I would consider to be an intelligent discussion of sincere and intelligent questions.  That despite the fact that our opinions on the matter do not particularly coincide.

Almarg 8-18-2017
Yet it is also true, as we are saying, that the cable configuration he recommends would negate the intrinsic directionality he is attributing to the wire itself.

Jea48 8-18-2017
But do we really know that?

It seems to me that it is a necessary consequence of what I stated earlier:

Almarg 8-18-2017
If the two conductors in a symmetrically designed cable are run in opposite directions (relative to what came off of the spool), then no matter which way the cable is connected the two conductors will **both** always be in the allegedly "correct" direction for half of each cycle, and the allegedly "incorrect" direction for the other half of each cycle. That follows from what I said in an earlier post in this thread:

Almarg 8-14-2017
When "the current" is traveling away from the component in one of the two conductors it is traveling toward the component in the other of the two conductors.

And it is **always** traveling through the input circuit of the component in one direction or the other, aside from the brief instant during each cycle at which the applied voltage crosses zero, and the direction changes.

(To add context, I had put quotation marks around "the current" to distinguish it from the electromagnetic energy of "the signal," that being conducted via the dielectric).

It would be a different story, as Geoff indicated, if the cable were constructed with both conductors in the same direction.  In that situation, **if** the conductors are in fact intrinsically directional to an audibly significant degree, in a given application, then reversing the cable would make a difference.

Jea48 8-19-2017
Al,
Question.
Does the hot/signal conductor, of an IC, hold any more importance carrying the audio signal from the source to the load than the ground/return conductor?
If yes please explain.
If not please explain.

I would put it that in the case of an unbalanced line-level analog interconnect the hot/signal conductor may actually be **less** important than the ground/return conductor.  For a couple of reasons:

(a)The resistance, inductance, perhaps skin effect, and perhaps other characteristics of the ground/return conductor may affect the amplitude and spectral characteristics of ground loop-related high frequency noise and/or low frequency hum.

(b)Those characteristics of the ground/return conductor may also affect the extent to which a small fraction of the current in the hot/signal conductor may follow a return path other than that ground/return conductor.  Such as the AC power wiring (as in a ground loop), or possibly even the ground/return conductor of the cable for the other channel. 

However, while those two factors can certainly be expected to have sonic consequences in some applications, and while they can create slight inequalities in the current being conducted in the two wires, I'm not sure how or if they might have a relation to directionality.

Best regards,
-- Al