New Townshend Rock 7 owner

Hello Slaw-

   I met you on the " VPI 2nd Pivot to 3D" thread where I suggested upgrading a VPI Prime by adding the Townshend damping trough to it. I came across this review Article: http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue62/townshend.htm 

  The article scarred me off of the Rock 7 and got me thinking of the above fix to the Prime. I copied the paragraph below which steered me away from the TT. Key was the added expense of a DC motor/power supply rather then the expense of just throwing $$ at cords, which I feel would be my scenario also. The reviewer highly suggests that the Rock 7 needs to be setup with help from a dealer versed in the matter below. My big problem is living in an isolated area at high elevation in NW Montana with a dealer probably close to 1000 miles away- not going to happen. Hey, I got electricity.
  Anyhow, hard to imagine such a messed-up setup and easiest get around cost $1900.00- Any comments on this ??
  I'm going to contact Townshend to see if a damping trough can be purchased alone for incorporation onto another TT (VPI Prime), and the expense that would go with it.


 The following taken from  Mike Wechsberg's "Positive Feedback Issue 62":

"I was not prepared to spend as much time as I did finding the right power cord to use with the Rock 7's motor. It is vital to find the right power cord for your Rock 7 turntable if you want to experience the brilliant sound it is capable of, because, for reasons I don't understand, the sound varied radically with choice of power cord. Some multi-kilobuck power cords I had in for review made LPs sound terrible (lack of focus, flaccid bass, grunge, etc.). Yet, in other positions in my system these same power cords made wonderful music. I ended up using a quite inexpensive PS Audio power cord with the Rock 7, because it resulted in very impressive sound. I eventually settled on a Kubala-Sosna Emotion power cord that allowed the magic of the turntable to shine through without compromise. However, the Kubala-Sosna cord may, or may not be the right one for you. I haven't noticed anyone else commenting on the Rock 7 mentioning this odd setup quirk (though Dan Meinwald alerted me to this phenomenon when I first started using the turntable), which puzzles me. If you decide to buy the Townshend, please work with a dealer to try out a range of cords from different manufacturers before you finalize the setup. Alternatively, Townshend has recently come out with an optional DC motor for the Rock 7 which comes with a substantial regulated power supply. I heard this configuration at Dan Meinwald's home recently, and it worked well with a plain old hardware store power cord. Since the DC motor/power supply adds $1900 to the price of the turntable, one has to choose between the cost of the motor vs. the cost of a potentially expensive power cord."

Thanks, Robes

Hi Robes,

I purchased my  Rock 7 as a package deal that included the DC motor/power supply. Mine is a later version that has a different bearing design as well. The power cord on my TT has a DIN plug on the power supply end so one can't go buy a replacement off the shelf. The motor on mine has a conical pulley and uses a flat belt. So the TT in the review you mentioned is the early Rock 7 and has none of Max's later thoughts/upgrades. The upgrades I've made to my Rock 7 are the Mark Baker belt and the two mats. Total cost under $150.00. Total % of increased enjoyment is off the charts!

My mentioning all of the clamps/weights I've used were in conjunction with my two mats. These mats alone or together bring the TT's performance up substantially. (I've never used or tried a periphery ring weight).

The last time I had my Classic 3 Sig SE in my system using my 1mm mat, it was an ear opener. The sound became more naturally expressed with much more musical bass, allowing me to hear/follow more low end info with greater clarity and expression. When I added the SS weight with the mat, the sound became more strident, less natural. This same difference was experienced with any of my other weights/clamps to certain degrees.

If you haven't already, you should read the Stereophile review of the Rock7/Funk Firm FXR.

I'd like to hear from you when you find out if the trough assembly is available and at what cost. I sincerely doubt if Max would be willing to work out a mounting system for another TT.

I wrote this about my Townshend Elite Rock 2:

I bought a Townshend Elite Rock Mark 2 with a Pickering XSV4000 cartridge and a Mission/Jelco arm.

I always had a soft spot for the Townshend since I was a teenager, and when the chance came up to buy one I snapped it up. I did a short review elsewhere in Audiogon.

I could not find a Townshend Rock Reference for sale they are very rare and the owners have the good sense to hold onto theirs.

I have the good fortune of having a Townshend Seismic Stand (the air pump type). This meant that installing the 'bellows' suspension from the Reference was not going to make a huge difference.

What I found to be holding the deck back was the drive unit. It uses an airpax/premotec motor running from an on off mains switch. Townshend make a merlin power supply, but there were a couple of problems that I perceived:
1. an original one wasn't available
2. it is an AC regenerator that is simply a single phase design
3. there is no pitch control

Now, I tried to use the drive unit from my amazon model one, this is battery powered and 'off-board'. I hooked it up and the belt kept falling off because the platter on the Townshend is angled.

Now my memory when auditioning decks was that the DPS 2 had superb timing and a solidity to the sound belying its' size. This was largely attributable to the Berger Lahrs motor that it uses.

Earlier this year someone had for sale an original DPS2 motor and power supply for sale. He was getting the three phase DPS power supply and motor upgrade. I snapped it up for a decent price.

Now the identity of the berger lahrs motor was known to me, and Schneider sent me a copy of the specs. It is much more torquey than the premotec, but is also higher RPM at 50hz. I must say that the single phase power supply still cogged a fair bit. The DPS has a unique 'resistive' bearing whicch I couldn't emulate with the Elite, so I bought some very thick grease from Lucas Oil. Quick digression but i have an amusing tale about the grease purchase. I was at my local copy shop getting a cartridge refill when I mentioned to the guy that I had to shoot off on a 20 mile trip before a motor parts shop stocking the said oil was about to shut. Lo and behold the copyshop owner went to the back of the store and returned with a new pot of Lucas Extra Heavy (the thing I wanted to buy). He said it was mis-delivered to him and sold me the tub for £5.00 (retail is over £15.00.

Anyway, back on track. My next 'upgrade' was not so much an upgrade as a necessity. This is the platter. As I said earlier the Townshend Elite has an angled platter, and the DPS runs a belt around the circumference. So after a series of google searches, and emails I got Tizo Acetyl to make a platter to my spes. The platter now being acrylic.

The belt. It's a real pain in the neck to get a peripheral belt. I ordered one that was the wrong size (too long) and then when I asked for an exchange or discount for a further belt the answer was a disappointing 'no'. Please don't make my silly mistake.

Anyway I tried the belt, and the platter was running fast. Not only that but there was palpable cogging. I am sure the DPS bearings rids the problem.

So this got me thinking and researching again. I considered the Heed Orbit amongst other AC power supplies, along with the VPI, and Linn Armageddon. I eventually chanced upon a power supply from a really nice German chap called Dr Berhard Fuss. He was able to custom make a power supply, that had switchable speed and also had accurate pitch control.

Bringing it all together this last week was a realisation of a mini dream for me.

The original deck had the inherent flaw of anything using the phillips/airpax/premotec motor. first of all the buzz in the motor imparts a mini haze into the overall sound. Yes it's musical, but it lacks detail (like a slightly out of focus picture). Not only that but image stability is wayward - probably due to the lack of torque leading to the collapse of image and slurring on busy passages. I know many say that Linns are famous for 'timing' but I am not sure if this is due to over enthusiasitic revving like a small car revving as opposed a real toquey V8 brute to power through.

So what were the results?

I think that my approach has fulfilled everything I set out to achieve, and possibly a bit more.

I have to say that the sound is both more digital and musical at the same time.

To my ears the most noticeable thing was that things just locked into place in the way a camera snaps things into focus. The noise floor dropped as well. This led to much better dynamic contrasts from quiet to loud passages. It was a  bit shy of my Amazon Model One in this regard which has an exceptionally low noise floor by virtue of it's DC Motor and battery power supply. When this happens the images also become more stable and solid. Rather interestingly the images seemed smaller at first. On closer listening i realised this was because the better defined delineation meant that there was less splashing and creep into other elements in the soundstage. Bass was going deeper than before, but was tighter as well.

The best thing about the sound was that things projected more, and everything fealt more live than before. I always thought, and took the view that when things became more accurate in timing, there will be tendancy to say things are more CD like. In simplistic terms this may be true. But the projection meant there was a more connected 'live' feeling that made things so much more musical and organic. One often expects that where a turntable goes more CD like it becomes: colder, more grey, more clinical. In this case nothing could be further from the truth. The sytem was more musical in the way I was more engaged in the sound produced.


The other parts in my vinyl set-up are as follows:
- Vendetta SCP2a (recapped with new IC's by Brett Hunnisett)
- Lavardin IT amp
- Lavardin interconnect
- Nordost Heimdall loudspeaker cable
- Yamaha Ns1000m speakers

I have other upgrades to try out, such as:
Nordost Tyr tonearm cable
Moerch DP6 Arm
Transfiguration Temper V
Helius Omega tonearm

I also need to try out some polycarbonate arm boards, possibly others as well...

Lessons???

First and foremost a single element of improvement won't do the trick alone. In my case a change of motor meant new pulleys, a new belt. new power supply and even a new platter.

Secondly don't be scared to put your theories into practice - trust your ears.

Third - it ain't gonna be cheap - don't skimp. that said the mods will be worth it.

Fourth - I do not think the mods are too deck specific - give them a try as well.

lohanimal,

Thanks for sharing your experiences. I haven't asked or looked to see what brand of motor I have. I did notice the vibration it made. This may be partly  due to the way it mates to it's (level adjustable) housing. I did notice when I installed the Mark Baker belt this vibration lessened and the musical presentation was noticeably quieter.

I too was a little concerned with the speed being slightly fast and the Merlin not having a pitch control. For now, it just sounds so great that I really don't think about it.

robes,

I meant to say above that the DIN plug is on the motor side.

It's been quite a while. I've been thinking about my current set-up and my ongoing TT project. One of the big issues that TT manufacturers have trouble dealing with is decoupling the lp from the bearing. How does one remove the resonance of the bearing from the lp? I think I've done it by accident on my Rock 7.

As owners know, the way the platter is made on this table is unique in how it accepts the clamp that Townshend makes. I use two mats. One a Funk Firm 5mm Achromat w/ my 1mm flexible vinyl mat. I think I wrote about it earlier. These mats bring the lp above the top of the female receptacle of the spindle acceptable Townshend clamp. 

When I put on a lp, I eye it for on-center play. So, essentially, I'm decoupling the lp from the bearing. Right? I believe that the positive effects of the mats are producing great sound in conjunction with this bearing/lp decoupling.