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Why is good, deep bass so difficult? - Myths and their Busters

This is a theme that goes round and round and round on Audiogon. While looking for good sources, I found a consultancy (Acoustic Frontiers) offering a book and links:

http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/guide-to-bass-optimization/?utm_source=CTA

Interestingly: AF is in Fairfax, CA, home to Fritz Speakers. I really have to go visit Fairfax!

And a link to two great articles over at sound and vision:

https://www.soundandvision.com/content/schroeder-frequency-show-and-tell-part-1
https://www.soundandvision.com/content/schroeder-frequency-show-and-tell-part-2

Every audiophile who is dissatisfied with the bass in their room should read these free resources.

Let me state unequivocally, deep bass is difficult for the average consumer. Most audiophiles are better off with bass limited speakers, or satellite/subwoofer systems. The former limits the danger you can get into. The latter has the most chance of success IF PROPERLY IMPLEMENTED.

The idea that large drivers/subs are slow is a complete and utter myth. Same for bass reflex. The issue is not the speed of the drivers. The issue is usually that the deeper a speaker goes the more it excites room modes, which the audiophile is then loathe to address.

Anyway, please read away. I look forward to reading comments.
erik_squires
bdp24's avatar
bdp24
9,803 posts
 
Richard Vandersteen has an interesting twist on servo-feedback woofers in his subs, He employs feed-forward (in contrast to feedback) in them, compensating electrically for the known non-linearities in the behavior of his woofers.
soundsrealaudio's avatar
soundsrealaudio
756 posts
 
wolf-garcia

Very pretentious of you to assume you can simply enjoy music. How dare you.

Are you coming to the RMAF this year. I think we spoke about 6 years ago there. I had the Wilson Beseech Curves and deHavilland electronics. You were kind enough to give me some compilations. 
bdp24's avatar
bdp24
9,803 posts
 
I simply enjoy music on my car system. I'll bet a JL Audio sub would allow me to enjoy it more.
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
Car systems are cool. Battery power and pneumatic isolation. Nothing wrong with them apples.

willemj
1,036 posts
 
I have tried to imagine what is meant by fast or slow bass. It cannot be the speakers themselves for reasons that have been explained. My hypothesis is that what people are referring to is really the delay that is visible in waterfall graphs of bass response in real rooms: the reflected sound of room modes lingers on.
When I added a B&W PV1d subwofer to my Quad 2805 electrostats I was disappointed at first, even though the room is large. The bass did indeed sound slow and woolly - not at all like the bass that was coming out of the stats. When I added an Antimode 8033 dsp room equalizer the problem was gone, and over a pretty wide area. So it was not the speaker that as slow, but the sound.
My take home lesson has been that room modes can indeed be a big problem. In a small room it is not a good idea to even try to reproduce deep bass. In a bigger room, with room modes at lower frequencies, the problem is less (the Schroeder frequency is lower), and equalization is easier and effective over a wider area. The second lesson is that dual subs are advisable, and preferably combined with a room eq system such as the Antimode 8033.
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