Devor - KEF - Vienna Acoustic – Wilson?

@blindjim,

I most recently heard the Wilson Sabrina's last weekend with the new Nagra Classic Amp (SS) with the Nagra Classic Preamp (tube). The other equipment was Transparent Cables/PCs/power conditioning and the dCS Debussy DAC playing thru Tidal. It was a very good for sure. Very revealing, nice pace, and very non-fatiguing over the four hours the system was in use. I have heard the Sabrina's a number of times and they've mostly been paired with ARC gear, which also sounds very good. I've also heard them with D'Agostino Momentum Monos/Pre a few years back, which I considered very good and have more recently heard them with an Arcam integrated with room correction (not as good as any of the other electronics I've mentioned previously). I very much like the Sabrina's and the Nagra worked very well with them. While I was there the Nagra Classic Amp was compared to the D'Agostino Classic Stereo Amp. I preferred the Nagra Classic Amp for its finesse and tactilness. The Dag was very iron-fisted (read bass controll) and overall less involving. Funny how a 40 lb. amp sounded better to me than a 108 lb behemoth. Weight, implementation, etc are all factors, but for me, the sound is the most important.

The Nagra equipment is not inexpensive. The amp is approximately $20k and the preamp around $16k. The Debussy is about $11k and the cables I have no idea. But I can say that this was a system that played very well for me. Some people deride dCS for it being to sterile. For me, I don’t remember hearing dCS before last weekend but thought that these pieces played complementary roles. It was very musical to me.

Jim, you said "but I’m sold on one not needing incredibly expensive speakers to reveal “Wow!” listening sessions". This is what this Sabrina/Nagra/dCS system did for me. But I've also heard the Sabrina's with ARC and felt the same. I hope to hear them with the T+A HV series integrated and multi source player. I've read that this combo works very well together but have not heard it yet. Hope to do so in November.

@blindjim 

KEF Blade Two comments – Jim, I took part of the following comments from another thread I was in back in June. --I heard the Hegel 360 at the Los Angeles Audio Show and it was very good; considerably better than the Rost although the Rost was pretty good too. They performed comparison tests between the Rost, H360, and their reference separates. The 360 was fairly close to the separates and it and the Rost have built-in DACs; the H360 is also 250 WPC. The demo speaker was the KEF Blade Two. I liked the Hegel sound. –I can also say that of the Blade Two; very even tonally with a bit of pop and sparkle. Though I liked them a lot, I took them off my list because they are $25k. But I also took them off because I like the Sabrina’s better. One observation is I’ve read that the Blade can be tough if you are close to sidewalls because of the side-mounted woofers. I think the Audio Doctor guys in New York have plenty to say about the Blade here in the Agon forums if I remember correctly.

Of course, on my last two comments, your mileage may vary.

@pokey77
RE: ROST Vas is ROST?

…. Nagra Classic Amp (SS) with the Nagra Classic Preamp (tube).


….the H360 is also 250 WPC. The demo speaker was the KEF Blade Two. I liked the Hegel sound. –I can also say that of the Blade Two; very even tonally with a bit of pop and sparkle. Though I liked them a lot, I took them off my list because they are $25k.


….but for me, the sound is the most important.


Extremely cool. Fascinating insights and well artivulated too. Thanks.


It sure would be nice to get something of a handle on the KEF Blade presentation with tubes. VA Listz and Music as well.


I agree, the Blade IIs will really have to have some long legs to overcome the added costs in either case, Sabrinas, or VA Listz.


I’m really liking the idea of the VA speakers, esthetics and flexibilities. Especially the added setup flexibility of the VA Music… albeit, once more, the disparity in added expense from the aforementioned two units (Blade II & VA Music) is yet another obstacle that might be to difficult to justify another either to ten grand or so IMO. Then too, if one eyes the vA Music, they gotta Eyeball the Blade itself, right?


Especially nice would be getting more of a bit of a handle on what the current VAC Sig II pre and 200 IQ amp yield with any of these speakers. Together, their MSRP = $42K setting them well above some other pairings of great interest, and as you just input here, the Nagra SS plus Tube pre combo @ $36K.


Youtube vids show the above VAC pair with Nola metro Grands (?) and a $7 or $8K CDP I don’t recall its brand or model, or the wires… maybe Shunyata? I recall the PLC was the $5K Shunyata.


Although I want a bit of snap. Pop. But hopefully no crackle. And a touch of ‘kick’ from the system with the genres I enjoy most, Nola’s presentation seems to me similar to some dipoles & open baffle speakers I’ve heard which in all were quite satisfying presenters. Consequently given the notion as you stated here it is indeed all about the sound, not the ego or name dropping trips some can get onto with gear.


Neither do I have a penchant for dealing with 100 plus pound amp (s), but I would if they were worth it. Heat too is not something I fancy, but again, if its worth it, then sure. Thankfully I can still lift an amp that heavy and move it about. Depending. I also bought ‘dollies’ for such things.


One big decided plus here is IF I stick to my plan for non uber priced squeakers, there will be more $$$$ for power and a DAC. IMHO, that is a outstanding factor.


I’ll have to look into the nagra SS amp. Didn’t think they made any.


Lastly, the point of side firing bass drivers could be an issue. Initially, ‘whatever’ will sit on the short wall. A bit less than 14 ft. side to side . A tad less than 21 ft. deep, though no real shot at placing them on the side walls at all as the projector and screen arrangement precludes that choice completely.


The distant 'horizon’ thought however is that I plan on moving to a different house. Where, and when is unclear but it will happen. That next joint will have a larger side to side usable dimension for sure. By how much? No clue. It’ll just be wider or I’ll look elsewhere. . 17ft. W seems about right.


This is a sticking point on the Sabrinas. In my current digs, they would be the likely optimum choice. Sizewise. In a larger room? Not so sure.

Naturally too, if any setup issue exists with those side firing drivers, it would be just a temporary thing.

and then, what about the Devore Gibbon Tens? Their specs indicate a far greater list of compatible amps than any of the others on this particular list.


Unquestionably the end result, or the ‘sound’ is indeed the goal, not the gear.

To my mind the VA Lizst's were right down the middle.  They didn't sound forward or recessed, tipped up or bassed down.  Heard them in a medium-sized room.  They certainly didn't overwhelm (volume control) but there was clearly a lot of oomph left there if you so desired.  In short, they checked all the audiophile boxes (imaging, soundstaging, etc.), and they hit them pretty much all on the golden mean.

@blindjim 

To add to my prior posts, the room I heard the Sabrina's in last weekend is 15.5 wide, 25.5 deep, and 9.5 high. It was also very well damped and the power is also well sorted out. The room was fully pressurized while music was playing. In addition to the digital music vinyl was also played. It was glorious as well.

I was given the remote and pushed the Nagra Classic Amp and it never lost one bit of composure. The volume at times was turned up to the 2 O'clock position and there was no compression, breakup, etc. The amp has a small power meter "Nagra Modulometer" and an Orange LED, which "is also fitted to indicate saturations, excessive temperature." I had it turned up quite a bit to see how it would fair and the only indications I got for this is massive crystalline dynamics and the Orange LED blinking some times. Even when blinking, there was no change at all in the sound. After experiencing this several times I realized it was much louder than I initially thought. And it was oh so pleasant at any volume level. There was never any "crackle" as you mentioned above; but snap and pop were definitely there in the room. A very lively and invigorating sound. It never got boring even after four hours.

The amp runs fairly warm when in play and just warm to the touch when idling. The Nagra Classic Amp and Classic Preamp look to be fairly new products. I like them but in the end I think they are out of my range, at least new and retail. One great thing about these components is they aren't gargantuan in size or weight; amp is 40 lbs and the preamp is just 11 lbs.

I have read a lot good about Vienna Acoustics but do not ever remember hearing them. If I'm not mistaken, Guido Corona has The Music. The Liszt looks like a real deal at $15k.

I also have not heard the  Devore Gibbon Xs (at least as far as I can remember). But they, like the X, have an advantage of having several bass drivers - two nine-inch woofers in this case. Would like to hear them. $16k puts them right in there with the others mentioned. Do like they appear to be easier to drive.

Finally, as I've talked about before, I've been to many audio shows in the last 3-4 years. That to say that it is possible I've heard one or both of these speakers in the past. If I walk into a room and it makes my ears hurt OR conversely there's no snap, I don't hang around long. Just because all this high-end speakers are positioned in a room does not mean that they are paired with the right gear or that the person who set them up got it right. Maybe I'll get to hear them at some point.

And of course, YMMV. Have fun with the hunt.