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Another soundstage question

There are a couple of soundstage related threads running on the amp/preamp section and they reminded me of a question I’ve been meaning to ask without hijacking those threads. The speakers are Vandersteen 2Ci and the system along with their placement is giving me a real deep and relatively wide soundstage - but not much further to the sides, but I’d like the height of the soundstage be little higher. The speakers are on the sides of a bay window, about 10’ apart and with heavy drapes pulled on either side and about 2.5’ behind the speakers. Much lighter curtains cover the bay windows for privacy. In my seating position that is about 10’ away from each speaker the top of the soundstage is just about the top of the speakers, sort of like I’m sitting at the same level as the musicians. The depth is realistic but I think the height needs to higher to give a better feel for the height of the singer standing in the middle and the rest of the band scattered at different levels within the stage. So having said all this, is the soundstage height mostly a function of the electronics driving the speakers or its the size/shape of the speakers, e.g., speaker height, tilt, etc., the listening placement, or a combination of all of the above. Thanks.

128x128kalali
kalali's avatar
kalali OP
1,977 posts
 
Great information, thank you.
newbee, you have superbly articulated the overall listening experience and your remarks reflect my personal experience with the various types of speakers that I have had the opportunity to own, particularly the planars and bi-polar designs. I think at the end of the day, it boils down to what compromises a listener is willing to make and the associated tradeoffs. Of course, if cost were no object, I’m sure one could minimize such compromises but the rest of us have to decide which elements are more important and enjoy what we have.
jwmorris
46 posts
 
I have Vandersteen 2ci speakers in my basement. Before I moved them there I had them in another room. The speakers were on either side of a computer desk. I also had a Vandersteen VCC-1 in one of the upper compartments of the desk. Several times while I was working at the desk and listening in stereo (so very near-field) I had to check and make sure the center speaker was not on. I clearly heard the sound above my head. I believe the speakers will play what is on the recording.

As others have said, position them as instructed in the owners manual. The speakers respond well to system and placement changes. Good luck!  

            
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. The only way to find the *absolute* best locations for the speakers so as to get the very best soundstage - all things being equal - is to use the out of phase track on the XLO Test CD. When the sound on that track is the most diffuse, i.e., when the sound is coming at you from all around the room, from no particular direction. Then you will achieve the best sound (all things being equal) including soundstage, when the sound in IN PHASE. Attempts to obtain correct speaker locations by ear are less effective, it’s like trying to solve X simultaneous equations in X+N unknowns. the best you can usually do by ear is find local maximums.

Another tip: most speakers are too far apart. It's an old wives' tale oft told that speakers should be in an equilateral triangle and or toed in for best soundstage. That’s part of the problem with trying to get a soundstage. The middle of the soundstage goes MIA when the speakers are too far apart. Room treatments go a Long Way towards reinforcing the illusion of the sound coming at you from all around the room on the XLO out of phase track.
kalali's avatar
kalali OP
1,977 posts
 
Thanks geoff, I'll look for that track. I have a relatively deep bay window between the speakers with thick curtains pulled to the sides behind the speakers, helping to create a nice and relatively deep soundstage. What I'm striving for is to get "right" size height. I adjusted the front spikes and added a little tilt and that helped somewhat. I maybe expecting for too much given my moderate system but experimentation is free and I'd like to exhaust all my options before I consider it done. Thanks for all the guidance.
skanda
60 posts
 
completely agreed on the tube pre. every system needs tubes somewhere :)...i haven't heard some of the newer ss pre's like pass xp30 or esoteric c03x so maybe those are capable of a similar dimensionality.

i've had good luck widening my speakers a bit and pulling them about 1.5 feet away from the back wall. i am space challenged but found a way to pull this off. i got more depth and width from this. the tube pre (arc ls17se) adds some midrange bloom which sticks the performers in my face
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