Magico S5 Speaker - SET UP ADVICE PLEASE - Tow-In - Etc.

Fsmithjack, thanks for posting the pix. Regarding my previous post, about sub connections, after looking at the second from the last photo I see that you don’t have them connected to the amp. I also see that your amp doesn’t provide the white signal ground terminal I referred to. After looking at some additional rear panel photos of the X350.5 via Google Images, it appears that some X350.5s were produced with that terminal (such as the one shown here), while others (including yours) were produced without it.

In any event, if you do end up connecting the subs at speaker-level, as I had mentioned the black (ground) wire from each sub should not be connected to a negative output terminal of the amp, since that terminal has a full amplitude signal on it. Connecting the black wire to a chassis screw might work ok, or it might produce a lot of hum, depending on the design of the amp. But the best approach would be to solder the black wire to the ground shell of an RCA plug, leaving its center pin unconnected, and inserting the plug into an RCA input connector on the amp. Of course, to make that possible without using a y-adapter you would have to connect the Bricasti (or a preamp, if you eventually add one) via XLRs.

Good luck. Regards,
-- Al

You have purchased wonderful speaker i had Magico Mini 2s now have Q3s  the Pass 350.5 is a great match i had Pass 350.8. Im now using Audia flight Stremento #4 Mk2.Im using Furutech top of the line copper cables large gauge copper is a great match with Magico I'm sure Kabals-sosna will be great as well.Im using Furutech power cords as well as i said copper is the way to go.The CJ ET5 is a great match as well but you must get nos Amperex from late 50s that will raise this preamp to a new level.There are ET 5s on Audiogon now at great prices as there is an ET7 out.Look at Symposium stands under your speakers they will give you much better detail and base as well.As someone said your speaker may not be broken in as its at least 500 hrs.You have great speakers  that need the best of everything to sound there best.Enjoy!!

Al good stuff - I was hooking the subs before to the black terminal. Do you think if I ever hook them up again I should avoid that? I did it with my Rethm's and it worked good but your info is great info!

Guys I want to update you on good news I've had with system changes that helped a ton.

Rather than typing it out twice I'll copy my email response to Peter Mackay VP of Sales and Marketing for Magico. He said he read my thread asking for help and he reached out and sent me the S5 manual and Magico set up info and made himself available and said not to worry he will help me get this right which I though was awesome - here is my rnail response to Peter: 

Thank you Peter! I called Goodwins my Local Magico dealer and they were amazing they not only offered to come out to my house and check everything out and help they spoke to me about my supporting gear and mainly my cables - Speaker Cables - Interconnects - Power Cable for source and amp.

We spoke and they recommend Kobala Sosna Expression cables so I drove right over and picked up some SC IC form them to try for the night and I plugged in another PC I had but via my Conditioner vs direct to the wall recomended by an Audiogon member. Needless to say these changes really changed everything. I did the cable change each set of cables at a time.

Each change it got a bit better but when I got to the speaker cables the entire speakers character changed which I've never experienced with cables before when using decent similar prices stuff but my stuff was a very poor match.

Verestarr cables are NOT a good match for Magico's I guess or maybe at least with my gear combo but I'm so happy its changed and sounds so much better.

I still have so much to do - much more tweaking and optimization and setting up proper and refinements and the like and I'm gonna add a high quality tube preamp etc. but now I have a baseline that I can work with.

The balance before was so far off and so bright and uneven but now these Kubala Sosna cables are amazing and I'm quite pleased that the cable swap helped so much and got them within working distance. I spent a coupe hours with lazer / tape measure / levels etc which I'm sure helped quite a bit as well :)

Thanks for reaching out. 

Fsmithjack,

Here are a few ideas for you;

1: Enormous improvement moderate cost $1,200.00 get a set of Isoacoustics Gaia footers the Gaia Ones can handle 200 pounds so your 220 weight is still workable.

The Gaias make an amazing improvment in tightining bass and createing a much more focused soundstage and make everything more clean without grain. These are one of the true wonders in audio, way, way better than spikes.

2: Move to a power conditioner that will work wonders, a Running Springs, Audience, or Audio Magic are so far the best we have tested.
An Audience 6TS demo like the ones we have are sold for around $3k and they can make a huge improvement. The Audience has a nice effect in adding a nice sense of warmth without making things too dark like some conditioners they also don’t limit current. Your HDX2 is built more like a star grounded distributor with a surge supressor then a power conditioner like an Audience or a Running Springs which use inductive and capacitive filtering which is really effective at removing grunge. The HDX2 seems like it is designed to distribute and absorb surges rather than being a mega filter.

3: Move your speakers further apart and increase the toe in. This generally moves some of the tweeter energy away from the ear and increases the soundstage and sense of realism.

4: Add Isoacoustics footers $20 each $60 for a set of three under your components. again makes everything less grainy.

5: Move into a real server rather than the Micro Rendu with a lot of uptone stuff, you may be surprised at how much better a well designed server is.

http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/innous-zenith-mkii-music-server/?page=2

http://www.the-ear.net/review-hardware/innuos-zen-mkii-network-server


I would do the above steps first, the Kubala cables are warm however they only get good with the Emotion, and great with the Elation. We were dealers for a while. The Enklein cables were better so we parted ways with Kubala.

Again, if you want us to come up we offer a very comprehensive setup service that will work wonders, so I would inquire what Goodwins will change you and compare the rates to ours.

As per your previous point, it is not how good the components are it is how they work synergistically. What works for one speaker and setup will not necessaily work with another and moving from your original speakers which use a custom version of a Lowther design,  to Magico is dramatically different type of loudspeaker technology and sound.

Dave owner
Audio Doctor NJ

Glad to hear of the good progress!

Regarding...

I was hooking the subs before to the black terminal. Do you think if I ever hook them up again I should avoid that? I did it with my Rethm’s and it worked good but your info is great info!

Assuming that the sub has a three-prong power plug, yes I would avoid connecting in that manner.

To explain why, I’ll first mention that in good designs circuit ground (also referred to as signal ground) will often be connected to chassis through a low value resistor, commonly somewhere between 10 and 100 ohms. In some cases circuit ground and chassis may even be connected directly together (i.e., through zero ohms), although that is poor design because it results in susceptibility to ground loop issues. Also, if the component has a three-prong power plug chassis will usually be connected to AC safety ground.

So in cases where BOTH the sub and the amp have three-prong power plugs, connecting the negative output terminal of a fully balanced amp to the negative speaker-level input of a sub (which is presumably connected to the sub’s circuit ground in most cases) would result in the signal that is present on the amp’s negative output terminal being sent through some unknown but probably low impedance in the sub to the sub’s chassis, then to its AC safety ground connection, then through the power wiring to the amp’s AC safety ground connection, then to the amp’s chassis, then through some unknown but probably low impedance in the amp to the amp’s circuit ground. Resulting in the circuit in the amp which drives its negative output terminal probably being loaded by somewhere between 0 ohms (a direct short) and 200 ohms. If that value is low enough, obviously the amp may either be damaged or forced into a protective shutdown mode. But even if the resistors are high enough in value to avoid that kind of issue, and to prevent sonics from being affected, one or both of the resistors might eventually blow as a result of having to handle more power than they are rated to handle.

I’ve seen a number of cases here where people using REL subs have reported connecting in that manner and getting away with it, presumably because the resistors were high enough in value to prevent a problem. But at best it is not good practice, and as I said it risks overheating and damaging the resistors eventually if not sooner.

Continued good luck! Regards,
-- Al