Magico S5 Speaker - SET UP ADVICE PLEASE - Tow-In - Etc.

No but I probably should I guess but don't think I will.

I am a HUGE fan of their preamps though. Some call them dark or closed in or shelved up top but I know for a fact that is not true and its not because of the BAT pre that would ever cause that. Well yeah maybe up top compared against a super sterile extended solid state preamp that they only thing they do that I love is air up top and their great transparency but that is a tube ss pre debate not the BAT pre.

The people that call the BAT pre dark is due the rest of their gear being exposed by the great BAT pre's. BAT pres highlight other problems in your system vs the BAT pre itself actually being the culprit. They will expose you so from that standpoint they are a pretty serious units. Sort of like my new Magico S5 Speakers. Best be careful because the rest of your system will be stalk naked and the weakness exposed but sometimes its hard to find exactly what part in the chain is causing the trouble. That said I love their pres and think they are very special and their tube amps for power our outstanding but never had luck with with their big SS amps and owned a couple of them. That last one was the main reason I am sour on their big SS amps.   

I had a big BAT is my system a couple years ago and was decent but after a short while wasn't a fan but that could have been due to the other items as every single items in my system has changed from that time: 

I owned:

Wilson Sophia 2 Speakers
CAT Renaissance SL-1 MK III pre
Manley Snappers
PSA DirectStream DAC
PS Audio Powerplant Premier
PAD Cables

I found the Snappers sounded decent but could not drive these Wilson's properly and were a poor match. I loved the Snappers but they just did not grab hold of the drivers properly. I got frustrated to the point where the snappers were actually started to bother me as at times were flat out flabby. Was considering a full re-tube but the life on them wasn't that bad.

In came the big BAT VK600SE and I liked it much better than the Snappers but the magic was gone. Not the tube magic but just the sole and the part of the music that we really connect with. I mean it was sort of there but it was elusive and sort intermittent rather than in spades.

To make a long story longer I picked up a cheap $700 BelCanto amp can't remember the exact model but it was one of the One models and it was excellent. It was amazing how much I liked the way that little SMPS amp sounded. It tough me about matching where before that I was just throwing darts. It did not have the bass or near the power of grip but much of the magic.

Its funny now thinking of it but the Snappers, BAT VK600SE and then the BelCanto experience really taught myself exactly what I wanted.

I knew what I wanted sound wise just didn't know how to get there so this led to a great time of learning and growth in my audiophile journey.

It let me down a dizzying road of furious rig refit of box swapping and speaker swapping and I was learning. Deep learning about power supplies and cables and different types of tubes and ss designed and no feedback and impedance matching and system matching and SET amps and high sensitive speakers and everything was on the table. It was enlightening and frustrating but I would not change it. I think in this I was searching for a sound. In this hobby you can read and learn and should but most of it comes from good old trial and error in terms of dialing in ones on ear. After that I settled on a great system about a year after than and ran that rig for a couple years happy as can be until this most recent system refit. My me a year and a half is long enough for one rig. I need to keep my rig and gear fresh. If it sits too long the components will depreciate too much so I like to keep the ball moving.

I now know so much more and I was confident enough to go with 103db single full range driver Rethm Saadhana V3 Speakers 8ohm driven by 2 watt SET 2A3S-FFX tube amp to Magico S5 Speakers 4ohm driven by 700 watt Pass Labs X350.5 solid state amp. As of now the Rethm/SET has the advantage but the Magico's are closing the gap quickly as I remove the exposed weakness along the Magico's keep getting better. My speaker cable switch from HiDiamond to Cardas made a very big jump. I have a PS Audio P10 on the way as well so I am building my system around my Magico's with much more knowledge than when I tried the BAT amp.  

typed on phone so please excuse all the type o's :)

UPDATE: I wanted to update my 3 threads. I appreciate very much all the feedback and help during this process. The folks on the GON are the best!

Guys my speakers were not even close to broken in. As in Brand New or very close to it. 

Goodwin's told me this, they called it cold, and told me not to worry and promised me they would change dramatically.

You know how it goes though - you hear what you hear and that sort of supersedes everything else but I was trying to be patient although I'm pretty impatient by nature as my words have made pretty clear but I am learning and growing as an aphile.
 
I was inclined to be believe them as they are the Magico pro's but I was worried because I was so unhappy with how they sounded at that point.

I just didn't think when I bought a used 2 1/2 year old pair of speakers they would need Full Blown brake-in but I was wrong.

Also, I thought that even if they did need break in I doubted they would evolve so much to make that much of a difference. I hear all the talk about break in being over rated and it is more a matter of us getting used to them verse them actually changing but I also would think if anything does need break in it would be speakers with the CAP and drivers needing it.

All this said I am utterly amazed at how much they have changed. Sure I made a speaker cable change that made a nice difference but that is not where the true evolution was. I am probably around 350 hours on them or so and for a good 8 to 10 hours a day out of 24 for the last week and a half I have really given them some nice volume and some good old SPL's and given them a chance to stretch out.  

I am told the 500 - 600 range is when they really settle nicely but I am very impressed and so happy how they are evolving. now These are some very serious speakers. So much better than I thought they were going to be. PS Audio P10 landing today and BAT VK-32SE close on its heals. 

As always I am going to plug my Amp via wall direct and hope to get a dedicated 20 amp set up for it and the P10 down the road in the near future but I am over the garage and getting in there means removing fire proof sheet rock etc so that may be a little while out.

Do any of you guys think it is worth plugging my Pass Labs X350.5 into the P10 or just stick to plugging into the wall.

Why did I chose the P10? Couple reasons is one many people like them and i got a such great deal on  brand new one thought it was worth a try. Audiotroy told me a conditioner and another server are needed. Although I am pretty happy with my server but am open to new ideas and growing. What do you guys think?

Thanks 
   

Thanks! for the update- fsmithjack
Happy Listening!

Hey guys - I have some new developments in my system that I had shared in my other threads and wanted to share with you guys also. Thanks

Hey guys - wanted to update you. I got the BAT VK32SE and my PS Audio P10 Conditioner from Fedex and have had a chance to install and listen a bit and these adds allow me to see right away where and how they fit or don't fit..

Like I said I am learning and working toward building my new system re-fit and figuring it out on the fly. I know I am going to make mistakes because most all my buys are without listening first. I know not ideal but also most items I am buying are used so that is sort of the price of this approach. Saves a ton of money but I also don't get to try in my own system first but also buying used and properly allows me to re-flip the items that are not the fits I am looking for.

This said here we go.

I know it is very early but right out of the gate the BAT is not for me. Great preamp and nice and warm and sounds great but these Magico speakers are so transparent and so resolving that they crave - require and demand nothing but the most transparent and neutral components in the chain.

The BAT just provides a bit too much in terms of moving away from neutrality.

I now understand why all you guys want components that are dead neutral. I never got that before but I sure do now. Clear as day!

Once your system gets to a level of transparency where every little change really is highlighted and effects the whole you want everything else that is added to not take from that.

The BAT is sweet and has great bass and sounds great but I have been running my Bricasti direct and realize just how much more I appreciate that sound vs what a tube preamp offers.

Maybe another tube preamp that is more neutral would be more to my liking but I am on the transparency train now and its hard to add anything that doesn't help scrub that window clean and make it as clean and as pure as possible where the BAT added too much tint to that window. A pleasant hue of tint but I tint none the same and many of you told me this and I want the glass in that window as pure and as pristine as i can get it and would love help and feedback from you guys.

Many of you called this but it was important for me to try a decent tube to get that doubt out of my mind and sort of flush my brain of that idea. Sure tubes can add so much that is desired but in my situation the trade off's where too steep of a price for me and one I am not willing to pay.

What do you guys think?

I am thinking Solid State preamp. Ayre K-1xe or maybe a Mark Levingson 326s. I would love a Pass XP20 but none out there used and the XP30 way too much money and the XP10 might now be able to outdo my Bricasti direct. Decisions / decisions.

Also, the PS Audio P10 is fantastic. I love it and it was a nice add on the neutrality and transparency front so happy about that.

I am batting 500 liking 1 out 2 of my last changes/adds.

Also, on my new focused path of neutrality and transparency I am making another speaker cable change. I know a couple weeks is very quick for these changes but in light of what I have learned it makes sense to me.

I switched from HiDiamond D8 to Cardas Clear Reflection speaker cables. My main reason at the time was my speakers with the former cables were incredibly bright and I wasn't happy with my speakers and this cable change and the added break was very helpful to fix this.

The bottom line is the HiDiamonds and the Magico's were not a good match so I pulled the trigger and made the change. I went to warmer and richer cable which was a nice change but the cable is a warmer and richer cable. I want neutrality and transparency so I today pulled the trigger on a cable change.

I sold my Cardas Clear Reflection speaker cables for the same price I paid for them so no financial pain there but they did help me learn more about my speakers and my preferences as it relates to these speakers. Also, what drove this is my ideal cable came available so I pulled the trigger. These were more money than the Cardas CF cables. Not a ton more and but a few hundreds more not crazy expensive considering the buy sell road i take but I am hoping this will be a nice change because these are a more higher end cable and well thought of cable and are known to work great with Magico's

Kubula-Sosna Emotion 2.5 meter Speaker Cables. I am hoping these are great. I am hoping these and a solid state preamp rather than a tube preamp will get me closer to where I want to go. Both changes are chasing that neutrality and transparency goal. There is always the fear of going too far the other way so that is why rather than a Nordost or a silver cable I went with the Kubula-Sosna Emotion as they are known to be a musical cable yet quite transparent.


I think my guiding goals are now transparent, musical and neutral and in this order is this is what will drive all my future decisions and not sure I could own this so confidently without my trial error process of trying on this BAT tube preamp.

What do you guys think?

Any good SS preamp idea's?

Any of you guys here these speaker cables I just bought?

Thanks as always for all the help.

I just started a thread asking about these 2-preamps but you guys have been with me on my system re-fit and wanted to see if any of you guys had feedback on these preamps:

Esoteric C03 preamp or Mark Levinson 326S preamp

ANY FEEDBACK - THOUGHTS - IDEAS would be so appreciated.