2. cables
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Opening a can of worms

Here is the can filled with opinions. It's been hashed and rehashed to infinity and beyond with no clear result. Since I am a seeker of truth I'll post my thoughts here for the yea and naysayers to debate over. Question is: Are expensive speaker or any other cable in a system worth the exorbitant cost over a reasonably priced cable loom? I thought I'd  experiment myself to find out. My comparison is between Transparent Ultra cable loom and Blue Jeans cable loom on a pure stereo system comprised of Proceed PAV,  Proceed PDSD,  Krell Kav 250, Musical Fidelity A3cd, Sony Ps4300 TT and B&W 803D2 speakers. All sources were used by this experiment using identical playback material. Cables had in excess of 200 hrs burn time and all were identical in lenght. The only variation were the connector manufacturers.
One change that occurred during this 4 week long endeavor was that I'm firmly seated on the sharpest picket on the fence.
My result is that I'm now a believer that there are audible differences in cables. I also believe that these differences are minute and one has to really listen carefully and for a long time to discern these differences.
Now to the crutch of the matter, $$$$$, As we all know Transparent Cables would reside in the upper tier of Audio Cable expense.  Blue Jeans Cable on the other hand falls into the lowest tier of expense (well maybe not lowest but low nontheless )
One would think then that the Transparent would be far superior to the BJs. Not really! Yes the highs were a little cleaner, mids a little tighter and lows a tad more pronounced but not by as much as one would expect. Soundstage was somewhat more open and airy and depth was somewhat more defined with the higher priced cable but again less than one would expect. 

Now for my personal opinion regarding the cable debate: expensive cable looms are slightly better than reasonable priced looms, if a dollar equals a penny to you then by all means opt for the higher priced loom, if a penny equals a penny don't be ashamed for opting for the best you can do. The differences are so minute that it's not worth going into debt over. BOTH looms sounded superb on my test system and I would be happy with either loom.

Now let the debate begin, just know I'm a fence sitter and not in one camp or the other
128x128gillatgh
taras22
412 posts
 
....yeah, also referred to as The Aristotelian Fallacy....which some see as a major tenet in the science as religion/the absolute truth movement...also see Russell’s Paradox which plays on the same theme...or as Bateson said, " the name is not the thing named"....

...nicely puts Man’s self-anointed "brilliance" into perspective, where the reality is its just institutional hubris back-stopped by numbers and a bunch of formulas ( this is the modern version, in the not modern version chants, rituals and prayers are substituted for the formulas.....and the effect is more or less the same....we know very little about nature but we have to convince ourselves we do, otherwise existance can be pretty frightening...)....

 
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
I am also fond of, "Perception gets in the way between reality and ourselves." In audiophile terms we are quite naive to believe what we hear is simply the result of the sum of the technical specifications of the electronics and the parameters of the room, the house AC, weather conditions, all the usual mundane audiophile jibber jabber. The great unexplored universe of perception lies beyond this vale of tears. 😢

hifiman5's avatar
hifiman5
1,832 posts
 
@geoffkait   Nice post.  I am struck by the angry responses from those who disagree with something YOU are hearing.  Only I truly know what my ears are perceiving as I listen.  In the same way, I can't disprove what you or anyone else is hearing.  Whether it can be measured or not is immaterial to me.  I'm not listening through a set of scientific measurements but rather the elegantly designed human ear.  All of our chemistry is different.  There are so many different human variables at play.

I can and have heard sonic differences as cables burn-in.  Period.  If someone else hasn't it doesn't invalidate my experience.  

On a personal note, I have always had highly sensitive ears.  Example...as a kid, there was a department store in a nearby town that I didn't enter because the florescent lights gave off a high pitched whine that I found very annoying.  Because of my awareness of the sensitivity of my hearing I have endeavored to protect it.  Any activity I engage in that involves a loud persistent noise, ie. vacuuming, mowing weed whacking etc. I wear ear plugs. 

On the flip side of that I have a suppressed sense of smell and unfortunately, taste.  I would never critique someone's cooking or wine selection because I know that those two senses for me are compromised.  It's just who I am.

If there are audiophiles who truly cannot hear cables burn-in or other difficult to perceive sonic events, that may just be them.  And that's fine. It doesn't mean they can't be discerning listeners and comment intelligently on the hobby.  

In closing, perhaps we all have to be a bit more cognizant of our personal uniqueness and accept that, rather than get angry that we're not all alike.  
shadorne's avatar
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shadorne
7,477 posts
 
Agreed we are all different. Some brains are more wired to fanciful wishful thinking and some are more logical with a higher degree of rationality. Does this affect what we thinkwe hear - absolutely!

If fuses or wires made a difference to equipment performance it is rational to expect these affects would be well known and many industries (hospitals, military, IT, airlines, manufacturers etc.) would all be purchasing these audiophile specialty products for the increased precision they bring to any electronic device.



hifiman5's avatar
hifiman5
1,832 posts
 
@shadorne   I can, without reservation state that I am a logical, sequential left-brained thinker prone to wanting all things rationally explained, but  I know I hear differences in cables burned in or not. 

Just because there are such perceived differences, the nature of those differences would not, I suspect matter or apply to hospitals, etc. There are, I'm sure, differences in visual acuity of test equipment (imaging) that would indeed matter to a doctor who is examining an Xray, MRI or mammogram image.  I doubt that the qualities that affect my aural perception would be applicable to their desire for more acute visual perception.


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