TriPlanar tonearm outward skating issue

One way in which some designers avoid the issue with the TP, that is the source of so much disagreement here between Raul and the world, is to route the wires so that they exit the arm wand just at or just before or just after the pivot. VPI and Basis tonearms adopt that style.  In so doing, the wires never have to traverse a right angle bend within the tonearm structure, which is the case with the TP.  However, the VPI/Basis (and Reed, I think) designs incur a penalty for choosing to externalize the wires at the arm wand; the wires asymmetrically affect the net friction in the horizontal plane, however tiny the added force may be.  In fact, VPI for years let that drag force serve as an anti-skate force. Herb Papier was no dummy; I am sure he was well aware of the problems related to routing of the wires, and he made the choice he made for a reason, probably to avoid the potential for the externalized loop of tonearm wires to affect the freedom of the horizontal bearing. This is just to point out that all design choices have their unique pluses and minuses.  Semantically, there is a big difference between "faulty design" and "design flaw".  The way I see it, the TP designer made a choice that can cause a problem if the end user is not careful or aware.

You said it better than I could have, Lou.  Personally, I think Herb's solution to the wire biasing problem is an elegant one.

Thom @ Galibier Design

Dear @thom_mackris : Here and in several threads I participated I posted that exist no-perfect audio item and that what makes a differences for the better are the good or not so good manufacturer/designer choosed trade-offs. For me that trade-off

I posted and ask that any TP owner or even owner of any pivoted tonearm make a test with VTF at zero and AS at " zero " ( tonearm in horizontal/vertical equilibrium. ) putting on at different horizontal positions looking if the tonearm mantain a dead-steady position where we posicionated, this have to be at all the LP surface length.

Seems to me that no one of you did it or decided not  share with us. So
I have to be direct: @lewm did you tested your TP in the last week? what found out? and Tom what found out on that test with you TP tonearm? or any one else.

Thank's in advance.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

Btw, good that we have and discuss our differences  because through those discussions every one learns or confirm " something ".

 

Hi Raul,

It would be an interesting experiment. You’d d also need to take bearing friction into account however.

Without taking bearing friction into account, the experiment is flawed. An arm wire that attempts to influence tonearm motion could be defeated by tight bearings.

You’d also need to develop a reliable, accurate, and repeatable means of measuring these small forces.

In other words, doing it correctly is at the back of my list, in terms of things I have on my plate at the moment. I have a new turntable to finish prototyping and an amplifier to put into production ;-)

What if we found otherwise "good" tonearms induced a bit of anti-skating (VPI)? Is that a bad thing if the forces are small?

This all goes back to designer’s decisions, and we may not all agree with their priorities, but this makes for variety and choice - especially if the decisions are competently engineered and implemented.

Reading between the lines, your point about minimizing skating or anti-skating forces is a good one, as we’ve learned that excessive tracking, skating, and anti-skating forces can compromise dynamics.

So yes, I like your experiment in theory. I just don’t have the time to do this in a rigorous fashion that would give me meaningful results.

In the meantime, I recommend rigorous attention to setup detail while auditioning. The tonearm that tracks the best, has great energy transmission and dynamic presentation is a great tonearm, and I don’t have to second guess the designer’s choices.

Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier Design