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Snake oil, fraud, confirmation bias

It is becoming increasingly apparent that many threads about legitimate topics devolve into one or more of the contributors here making claims of snake oil, fraud, or confirmation bias thereby derailing the conversation beyond the valid and relevant thread topic and this is getting ridiculous. For anyone here who honestly holds the position that there is snake oil and fraud in the world of Music Reproduction Systems I challenge them to prove their claims in court it should be an easy task based on the claims they make here in Audiogon  AND they will make a fortune because in the US once proven they can file a class action suit and profit enormously from the efforts of others to deceive. These people regularly claim that "there is no evidence" that things such as cables or fuses make a difference when in actual fact Audiogon is filled with evidence that these things make very real differences in Music Reproduction Systems of course those who claim fraud reject that evidence as "confirmation bias" but in absence of any documentation from them they are only repeating the claim they have made so many times that has been refuted many times here by those who have demonstrated to there satisfaction that they make a difference.   I think in actual truth the real fraudsters here are those that repeatedly make these claims of snake oil and fraud and often they have no experience to back up there claims they simply say the claims are impossible!
clearthink
shadorne's avatar
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shadorne
7,477 posts
 
Measurements dont apply to the enjoyment of roses or a meal but the roses may be carefully grown in a measured and controlled way and the meal prepared with measured ingredients and use of heat as well as technique.

The subjectivists continually confound measurements used to rigorously engineer and test high fidelity equipment and sound reproduction to the feeling one gets from listening to Mahler or Mozart. These are two entirely different aspects and conflating them is just the consequence of a feeble mind.

Of note the Snake Oil purveyors constantly appeal to subjective elements that are associated with our perception of music rather than stating a performance specifcation for what their Snake Oil actually does in a measurable way. This is deliberate and it works well but only on feeble minds.
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
Uh, actually we already know that many of these "Snake Oil" devices cannot be measured, at least not using conventional methods. That’s why you have to use your listening skills to evaluate them. Hel-loo! "OK, Give me some examples," you implore. OK, audio cones, the Clever Clock, Silver Rainbow Foil, Cream Electret, Morphic Message Labels, the Green Pen, a purple pen, a black pen, the Red X Pen, demagnetizing CDs, Mpingo disc.

Tiny little bowl resonators, tube traps, and other things that probably don’t arouse the overly suspicious mind of the wary naysayer CAN be measured using ordinary means. Besides the measurement argument is kind of moot since nobody measures anything anyway - not reviewers, not naysayers, nobody! They don’t measure cables, they don’t measure fuses, they don’t measure room treatments, audio racks, isolation devices or CD treatments, not even crystals, so in reality the measurement argument is pretty feeble, to use your word.
firedrums
85 posts
 
Mine Goes to 11
randy-11
1,913 posts
 
Snake Oil is worthless - that's why I use Unicorn horns as vibration isolators under my router!
eric_mannon
2 posts
 
I kind of look forward to the opinions on both sides. It's why I come here. It wouldn't be very informative if everything was pro / positive about every subject.


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