Which watts are the right watts in SS amps?


Hello Sports Fans!

More than a few people over the years on these pages have said only those SS amps which double down in output power as impedance drops are truly special or worthy amps. Eg., 200 @ 8ohms; 400 @ 4 ohms; 800 @ 2 ohms; etc.

Not every SS amp made does this trick. Some very expensive ones don’t quite get to twice their 8 ohm rated power when impedance halves to four ohms. BAT, darTZeel, Wells, and Ypsalon to name just a few.

An amps ‘‘soul’’ or it’s ‘voice’ is the main reason why I would opt in on choosing an amp initially and keeping it. Simultaneously , I’d consider its power and the demands of what ever speakers may be intended to be run with it or them.

I’ve heard, 80% of the music we are listening to is made in the first 20wpc! I’m sure there’s some wisdom in there somewhere as many SS amps running AB, are biased to class A Only for a small portion of the total output EX. 10 – 60 wpc of 150 or 250 wpc.

After all, any amps true output levels are a complete mystery when anyone is listening to music anyhow.

I suspect, not being able to actually measure true power consumption, the vast majority of listening sessions revolve around 60wpc or so being at hand with traditional modern reasonably efficient speakers.

Sure, there are those speakers which don’t fit into the traditional loudspeaker power needs mold such as panels or electrostats, and this ain’t about them.

The possibility of clipping a driver is about the only facet in amp to speaker matching which gives a person pause while pondering this or that amplifier.

I feel there is more to how good an amp is than its ability tou double output power with 50% drops in speaker impedance.

However, speakers are demanding more power lately. Many are coming out of the gates with 4 ohm ‘nominal’ IMPs which lower with fluctuations in frequency. Add in larger motors on larger drivers, multiple driver arrays, and on paper these SOTA speakers appear to need more power.

IMHO It is this note which introduces great concern.

I’ve read every article I can find on Vienna Acoustics Music. Each one says give them lots of watts for them to excel.

Many times good sounding speakers I’ve owned sounded better with more power, albeit from arguably a better amp.

I tend to believe having more than an adequate amount of cap power is indeed integral. … naturally the size and type of transformers in play possess a strong vote for an amps ability to successfully mate with speakers.

Controlling a driver’s ability to stop and restart is as well a key to great sound and only strong amplifiers can manage this feat. Usually this gets attributed to ‘damping’ factor, but damping as I read it is more a shadow than a tangible real world figure as it depends on numerous factors. Speaker cable length alone can alter damping factors.

A very good argument exists about those mega watt amps voices. Each 500 or 600 wpc amp or amps, I’ve heard have had stellar voices too, not merely more watts.

So is it predominately these mega watt power house amps souls or their capacities that fuels the speakers presentation?

Would you buy an ‘uber expensive’ amp based more on its voice or soul, than on its ability to output loads of watts, even if you feel the amp may be somewhat under powered for the application?

Choosing this latter option also saves one money as the more powerful amps do cost more than their lower outputting siblings.

Please, share your experiences if possible.

Tanks muchly!

blindjim
But you will not get the best from them until you hear it driven properly with a solid state amp that can drive this sort of load with current.
 
George, maybe you can clear something up because as far as I know, the above statement is outright false. If the amp is making a given power into the load of least impedance, is the current going to be higher with a high current amp as opposed to one that has less current?

BTW, this is a yes or no question...
is the current going to be higher with a high current amp as opposed to one that has less current?
Given the Magico’s impedance v phase graph, the amp with "ample current" will stay flatter in frequency response than the one that is "current challenged" especially at 50hz where impedance and -phase is at it’s worst.

https://www.stereophile.com/images/217MagS52fig1.jpg

But what I will ask you Ralph, is one of your production OTL amps going to stay flat in frequency at a reasonable loudness level and envelope of +& - 1,2 or even 3db, into this load without the band-aid use of any external Auto-transformers?? BTW, this is a yes or no question...

Cheers George
The correct answer George, was ’no’: if two amps are making the same power into a given load, then the current is exactly the same. It was a trick question in a way. The trick was knowing Ohm’s law.

Now in this case:
Given the Magico’s impedance v phase graph, the amp with "ample current" will stay flatter in frequency response than the one that is "current challenged" especially at 50hz where impedance and -phase is at it’s worst.
- if the amp can make the power into the worst of the load then how much power will it make into loads that are not as difficult? The answer is ’less’.

So we can see that if a tube amp can make the power needed, it does not have to be a perfect voltage source to still get flat frequency response, as good as any solid state. Its simply has to be good enough to do that.

There is an issue here, the harder you make the amp work, the more distortion it will make. You can see this in the distortion vs frequency specs of all amplifiers. The distortion is audible too- in the form of increased brightness and hardness, caused by higher ordered harmonics to which the ear is keenly sensitive, as it uses them to sense sound pressure.

So a powerhouse amp might be able to drive some insane load, but there isn’t a reason related to high quality sound reproduction to do so. If you want the amp to strut its best, an easy load will have it making less distortion- it will sound more like music.

Regarding our amps, they were designed with intention to work with speakers that do not require feedback of the amp; this is done because a speaker that **does** require that of the amp will inherently never sound like real music- it will always sound like a hifi- maybe a really good one, but still a hifi instead of real music. See Norman Crowhurst, you can download his books from Pete Millet's website http://www.tubebooks.org/technical_books_online.htm

It was a trick question in a way. The trick was knowing Ohm’s law.
Really!!


Regarding our amps, they were designed with intention to work with speakers that do not require feedback of the amp;
  In other words easy to drive speakers that are as close as possible to a pure resistive load, which Ralph there are not many good ones, Magies come to mind, not much else of worth, that why you push the Zero Autoformer.

Cheers George
Gryphon top of the line amps will blow to hell all the tubes in all the tube amps Ralph has ever touched. Along with all Classic Audio speakers and Technics DJ turntables. Nothing does power and current like big Gryphons. They don't care about these funny impedance and other problems with speakers. Problem with them might be that the Gryphon may suck in all the electricity available from the power station just to play your music right and leave the entire neighborhood in the dark. 
What are you waiting for if you want real power ?