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ARC Ref 5se inferior to LS28?

This is what a big dealer told me the other day. Dealer speak or right on the money? Would very much like to hear opinions of the many knowledgeable ARC users on Audiogon. Thanks

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jmcgrogan2's avatar
jmcgrogan2
6,346 posts
 
@hk_fan , +1. Mere marketing tactics, nothing more.
ARC seems more prone to this hyperbole, and model turnover, than other companies though.

Now that is not to say that the LS models aren't 90% of the performance of the REF models. The law of diminishing returns hits very early in audio gear, and no manufacturer is immune. I would bet that the REF 6 gives you 90% of the performance of the REF 10.

My Transfiguration Phoenix S cartridge gives 90% of the performance of the Transfiguration Proteus. The same for my Allnic H1201 phono stage, 90% performance level of the Allnic H3000. Etc., etc., etc.

In the end, most folks pay a LOT of money for that small increase in performance. How much difference they spend, depends on how much they value the dollar versus how much they value the music.

It's an individual choice that we all make.
randy-11
1,913 posts
 
Manepan is a speaker manufacturer, blind tests its products and will claim that their new current lineup is slightly or signficantly superior to their older, discontinued lineup, and they have been in business a very long time.

They will use an "i" for an incremental upgrade and change the digit for a bigger upgrade.  They will ALSO tell you (as Wendell told me) "maybe you just want to keep your old ones).  They are a Minn. firm, located near ARC.
ARC seems similar to me (despite being sold a few years ago).

Tube tech. has not changed a lot but ARC does change to different circuits and different models of tubes.

You can compare the added features of ARC products at the 3rd party web site that tracks all their products - things like relays to reduce signal paths, thicker case material in places to reduce resonance (and changing from Al tops to poly-carbonate), better tube and component matching, etc. etc. all could improve SQ.  Tube hour meters can help yo achieve better SQ too.

Do a real listening test (blind) to see if you want the latest and greatest.

Don't forget - they service everything they EVER made - dos that have value to you?  Only Bryston has a better warranty/service policy AFAIK.
docknow
309 posts
 
@tomic601 Yes, both were fully broken in.  The LS28 I bought new on the trade-in deal this summer and it has about 1,000 hours on it.  The REF6 was purchased used and had about 3,000 hours when I put it in the system and compared it to the LS28.


spin4cards
37 posts
 
Yes schubert. A pretty smart comedian once said..." I wouldn't want to belong to any club that would have me as a member".
minorl
1,016 posts
 

Seems most items have a price point category and a level of competition.

Audio Research apparently places their "REF" series in the same category as other products of the same price point.

In my opinion, when you are in the high end of audio play back equipment, Jaw dropping differences are very rare.  I really haven't heard serious Jaw dropping differences in a while.  I have and do hear differences all the time.  But they are subtle.  The questions to me are 1) am I there yet?  2) are the differences such that it "justify" (that word again) me coming out of pocket for this "upgrade", 3) can I afford this upgrade?

I am definitely not in the amp of the month club.  I upgrade when I feel something is missing and that new piece fills that gap.  or (and I think many of us are in the category also), a piece comes along that is as good or better than your original  piece and some one offers a price that you simply cannot walk away from.  That does happen.

I "upgraded" from a REF 3 to a REF 5SE last year.  REF 3 to REF 5 wasn't worth the change.  The differences weren't that great to justify it.  However, The REF 5SE was enough of a difference.  Don't get me wrong.  Unlike some I have read hear on Audiogon, just because one upgrades from one piece to another does not invalidate  the original piece.  I would tell most people (if they cannot afford a piece in the REF 5SE or REF 6 range to definitely get the REF 3.  Heck, I'll tell people to get an SP 11 or SP 15 also.  With new tubes, these rock).  But back to my point, I purchased the REF 5SE at a really nice price for me. Almost couldn't pass it up.  But, just a quickly, I found out about Audio Research's trade in/trade up policy.  They offered me more for my REF 5SE towards a REF 6 than what I paid for it.  Also, the REF 6 was a demonstration unit from Audio Research called an  R unit. or some such.  It was used by a reviewer and returned to Audio Research.  So, I got it at a really nice price.  Also, It only had 24 hours on it.  I felt good about the purchase.  And before  I returned the REF 5SE, I got to do direct comparisons between the REF 3, REF 5SE and REF 6.  Oh boy, what fun.

As I mentioned earlier, I don't believe that the LS 28 is better than even the REF 5SE let alone the REF 6.  However, I know there is trickle down technology in the LS28 and you really can't go wrong with it either.  The REF 6 is at another level.  Same as the REF 10. Wow, what a piece of equipment.  Great sound.  If I could get my hands on one for a "price I can't walk away from", I would probably do so.

enjoy

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