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Would love some feedback / Denon DL-S1 / phono match / cart recomendations

Would love some feedback / Denon DL-S1 / phono match / cart recomendations

- Vinyl newbie and need some help

- Friend has a brand new  Denon DL-S1 for $600 - good deal?

- I have a Mark Levinson No.326s preamp and just bought the dual mono MM/MC Phono module boards. They are the identical boards from the No,32 preamp and read that was a very nice sounding phono preamp.

- No.326s only has a couple settings 42db or 60 db and 47k ohm or 200 ohm load

- I picked up a used Bob's Device 1131 thinking it would help as my No.326s has limited setting options and read the 1131 might not work well with this cart. That this cart is tough to get the most out of but can be great.

- Should I get another cart? Was it a mistake getting the 1131 SUT. I read the No.326s sounded nice with this SUT so went for it but don't know enough to really know better either way but trying to learn.

- The No.326s phono boards has these little gold terminal screws with easy tighten by hand little knobs on the heads of the screws to add either capacitor or resistor to make the phono very adjustable but would have no idea how to figure out how to use that but thought to mention

- just wondering if this is a bad cart for me to try with my phono and SUT set up and any feedback about anything related to a cart would be super appreciated if anyone reads this. Thanks

more info if helpful below but not need to answer my question just thought to add it :)

______________________________________________________________________________________


I just finished up a full system re-fit with some tweaking here and there still to do but I am extremely happy with the sound I’m getting today from my new to me system. I sold my entire old system that was tubes and high efficiency speakers and got new to me: speakers, amp, preamp, speaker cables and upgraded digital transport and got a new turntable. Kept my DAC never changing that. Love my DAC. 

This system is the best I’ve personally ever had. I’m pretty psyched - so psyched I just added a turntable. 

A modern Version of the VPI Prime Aries with HRX Feet, 10" 3D Arm and Base, Prime Signature Platter, Ring and Motor. 

I am looking for a cart and my friend has a new Denon DL-S1 for $600 he also has a  used but good shape Clearaudio Accurate mc cart for a few hundred but i never heard of this one and a  van den Hul blackheart grass hopper which I know nothing of.

I thought because the Denon is new never used that was the best option but any of you know anything about the other let me know please.
  
Would love some feedback / ideas / thought recommendations and help. I’m a digital guy and want to give vinyl and honest to goodness try.

As stated above I just purchased the dual mono Phono board modules for my
Mark Levinson No.326s linestage so it’s now a full function Preamp and added a Bobs Device 1131 SUT and both were attained a very reasonable cost which was great!

Just not sure if these carts will go with my phono and SUT.

Rest of my System:
https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/5160

- Magico S5 Loudspeakers
- Pass Labs X350.5 Amplifier
- Mark Levinson No.326s Preamp/phonostage
- Bricasti M1 Special Edition DAC
- PS Audio P10 Power Plant
- Kubala-Sosna Emotion SC’s
- Nordost/Cardas IC’s
- Assorted PC's Verastarr/Cardas

- Digital PC based front end that I have been tweaking and evolving:
- Sonore microRendu 1.4
- Full Suite of UpTone Audio Gear
(2) x LPS-1 Ultra Capacitor PS
JS-2 Linear Power Supply
(2) Regens - ISO/Amber
- (8) Canare / Oyide DC cables
- (2) Breeze Audio 12v LPS
- Tellurium Q Black Diamond Reference USB cable
- Curious Regen Link USB Cable.

This Digital Front End beat out: Lumin, Antipodes, Naim and Auralic servers. It needs everything to work so well but man does it work great. My hope is that a turntable can complete and wish some luck I end up liking it better. That’s why I’m asking for help. I want to put my best vinyl foot forward 

** Back Ground info**

** Room is **
14 x 24 w/Cathedral Ceilings - 16 Foot a peak

** Music likes **
Assorted Music but no metal or loud hard rock anymore really - not much Large Scale classical either but everything else. I listen just loud enough to sound its best but not a loud listener. I enjoy normal levels.

** Likes / Priorities **
Transparency - Delicacy - Linear - High resolution - microscope but not sterile not etched or lifeless -some natural warmth and life to the music is key  but love that see through transparency and love precise soundstage - remove as many layers without being clinical - tight bass - hate flab - but don’t need worlds greatest slam but love speed and accurate bass while being musical.

** Perspective **
I’m only a couple months into this new system and I was struggling to get the right Preamp and tried a half dozen or so searching for the right balance and the one that could bring my new system together like only the perfect matching preamp can do. Each system is different so really it must be heard to know it’s what you want. I believe in the Preamp and knew If I could find the right match it would change everything. Well that was the hope.

To make a long story longer the Mark Levinson No.326s preamp did this and more. I was hedging my expectations based on the disappointments of the others I tried and failed but the No. 326s nailed it and honestly it an incredible Preamp and then some. I was so happy I decided to upgrade and add the built in phonostage option and SUT and Turntable here we are trying to chose a cart.

Really appreciate any help you can provide! I know this is kind of long but wanted you guys to know where I’m coming from! If you would like more info please let me know - all comments and feedback are most welcome and deeply appreciated :)




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fsmithjack's avatar
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fsmithjack OP
712 posts
 
I am really happy to know that my phono preamp is a nice one and can run my cart by itself. Also VPI released a little mod, I am not sure exactly what it is just read about it but it makes the arm much more stable and makes it a duel unipvit, I think? Does that make sense. People say its great and a nice update and makes it more stable, easier to use and sound nicer? 
folkfreak's avatar
folkfreak
1,349 posts
 
@fsmithjack the VPI dual pivot mod is worth investigating -- most well designed unipivots include such a mechanism and it is good to see VPI finally getting around to this

Please take the feedback you get from @rauliruegas with a pinch of salt -- he is a notorious foe of tubes, step ups and unipivots and no matter what system you have if it includes one of these noxious devices he will criticize it. My system includes all three and has no restrictions at the frequency extremes, or in dynamics or anything else you care to mention

Unfortunately there's only so much you can learn about analog by asking questions on the web -- most of it has to be learned through practical experience working with many setups -- do you have a local "analog guru" that can come round and show you the ropes? You really need to be able to tear down your table, mount a new arm, and fully align any cartridge yourself -- otherwise you can never be sure the setup is correct (even a short trip back from the dealer can throw a setup off, and 9 out of 10 dealers don't set up that well anyway)
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rauliruegas
13,106 posts
 
Dear @folkfreak : I respect your opinion and good for you that own tubes, SUT and unipivot tonearm.

Now, that you can’t detect the deep damage that all 3 makes to the cartridge signal do not means in anyway that I’m wrong.
Maybe you can’t detect it because you never gave or give for a decent period of time the opportunity to listen at your place with the records you truly know an all SS electronics with a integrated active phonolinepreamp as my Essential or the OP 326S along top SS amps and compare it , after listen the SS alternative for at least 3 months in a row, latter against your tube/SUT and the same with a non unipivot tonearm against a gimball good tonearm design.

If you never did it that test then the " salt " you are talking with @fsmithjack in reality has a true name.: LEARN and this is what you need for. That’s all.

Not only you but no one even the item designers can’t argue in favor of tube/SUT/unipivots against SS/gimball or active phono stages and I mean no one can with true facts on hand that tell us for sure that any of your 3 alternatives puts you nearer to the recording than what is my advise and you can invite any of them to come here and we can discuss that subject as deep they want it taking in count that the main premise in that discussion will be to stay truer to the recording. You can be sure that I can take that kind of hard challenge.


The matters is not if what you own likes you or can’t detect the damage or whatever reason you have. The subject is that with your 3 prefered system items you JUST CAN’T BE TRUER TO THE RECORDING as with my advise here an all over the internet where I posted the same. It doeas not matters what you or me can think about, the real and true facts are there with out doubt and almost out of discussion. It does not matters the price of your system or other $$$$ systems that has those 3 items.

As you know because I posted several times: I used for years tubes, SUTs and unipivot, even today I own 1-2 unipivots and 3-4 SUTs.

Btw, @fsmithjack VPI designed recently a gimball tonearm and maybe if you talk with them you can use it in your TT. I don’t know how good is that new VPI tonearm design and if it’s a well damped tonearm but you can ask for it. Almost anything is better than the tonearm you own.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.
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rauliruegas
13,106 posts
 
Dear @folkfreak : Obviously that you are enterely satisfied with your home audio system and this is most important issue for each one of us.

I'm not against tubes just " per sé ", no things are that I learned by my self that tubes can't honor what's in the recording grooves in better way than SS. This technology has and is extremely limited for today standards and with your Q3 just can't do a decent work.

Now, no SUT can compete with good active SS design, even those SUTs with high price tags over 7K can't do it. Physics laws can't be changed, not you, me or any SUT designer.
But forgeret what is inside the SUT box and think that the delicated and I can say extremely delicated  and very low output cartridge signal instead to go directly to the circuit boards ( as in the 326S. ) that's the shorter " road " for that delicated recorded information that is what that signal needs: shorter road to suffer the less degradation trying to preserve the original recorded information pick-up by the cartridge.
Instead of that in your system the signal not only has to pass through " hundred " of meter in both SUT transformers and from there must pass for other degradation link that are the SUT output connectors but inside this output connectors exist a piece of solder for the inside cable that goes to those connectors and YES this piece of solder and the additional output connectors where that signal must pass following degrading the signal ( not only at both frequency extremes but over all the frequency range . ! ! ) then from these output connectors the signal goes inside the IC cable male connectors with that cable solder where the signal degradation continues the heavy endless degradation but thing does not stop here because the signal has to travel over that IC cable followed but the output IC cable and on and on....

Btw, your unipivots are a little diferent from the VPI.

Your supertweeters only destroy the sound of your system and I know it by experience because I use it many years till an speaker expert designer explain me the problem but your q3 goes to 50khz and has no need for those Enigmas that its frequency range stops at 40khz ! ! and now you have two sources in very bad position working in part of the same frequency range: tweeters and sperT   ? ? ? 

In the past I recomend to you to integrate your system two self powered subwoofers due that the Q3 crooosover the midrange at over 300 hz.

As you can read many problems in your system and that's why you can't detect all the " errors " down there.

Btw,  by coincidence I read this in relation to the Q3 ( I read it 5 minutes ago ) that coincide with my past advise on subs:

"""  Seems to not like big swings in the low registers ..For that one may need to upgrade to the bigger brothers the Q5 or Q7. I am very partial to subwoofers as many know by now and would love to use this speaker with active crossover (Say the Lyngddorf) and crossed very high with a smooth slope say 6 dB/oct at 100~150 Hz... Just a thought..  """


Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.
folkfreak's avatar
folkfreak
1,349 posts
 
@rauliruegas your ability to diagnose the sound of a system by looking at photographs is amazing! I imagine you never need to leave your house and instead can imagine any sound from any system in the world

Anyway if you ever find yourself in Portland OR please feel free to swing by and see how far off your "deaf" (i.e. by which I mean unheard) evaluation is.

Here's a quote from a local manufacturer who swung by to install some new accessories in the system yesterday

Enjoyed seeing you and hearing your system again. A remarkable improvement to your great system from my last visit. I am very pleased with the further improvements from today’s goodies we installed. Particularly fun for me to hear the lower bass definition and the recording venue soundstage space that the bass revealed.
Anyway back to the OPs question -- while there are definitely differences in taste and presentation between different approaches there are many ways of getting to great analog sound but all require very careful setup and attention to selecting and matching the components along the way

And btw @rauliruegas I don't even necessarily disagree with you -- I'm currently for example awaiting a solid state phono stage to replace my tube one -- but it will be MM only hence the step up! The designer of this stage believes that any high gain (i.e. much above 40dB) phono stage represents unacceptable compromises ... again just one opinion and one approach, not suggesting this is gospel for all!
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