Lyra Kleos vs Koetsu Urushi

I own a Koetsu Urushi matched with a Classic II VPI JMW 10.5 inch Tonearm. I use a Bob’s Device SUT set at 1:20, matched with a Conrad Johnson TEA2 high gain phono amp. These components were personally recommended to me by the manufacturers of all these fine components.   I think this setup sounds better than any I had in my system in years. 

I am looking at buying a Kleos for my second table, an AVID Volvere with an SME V tonearm. It’s matched with another Bob’s Device SUT and Cary preamp. Anyone have thoughts on how this potential matchup would sound compared to the Koetsu setup. 

Will be keeping both both tables in my system. My preamp and power amp are Cary, run through Acoustic Zen speakers. 

@tsloan
Koetsu cartridges have had threaded mounting holes for several years now. I have a couple of older Koetsus without it, and I agree it's a bummer. And trust me, I too thought that the little $10K polished lego bricks were stupid until I heard one!

@hcalland 
Can't help you on the Kleos, but I agree the Koetsu & Bob's Devices SUT combination is amazing. It's hard to imagine anything beating that paring for musicality, but I see the appeal of also having a more "technical" perspective (e.g. Lyra, Ortofon exclusive line) available on a 2nd arm or table.

@mulveling 
Oh well, I took the plunge and ordered the Kleos today. I want the option to listen to my records analytically, and the Kleos will do that in spaces I hope. The Koetsu is pleasing beyond words and will stay on the VPI. The Kleos will relieve a Miyajima Zero on my SME V Tonearm/AVID Volvere TT.  I enjoy listening to mono records and the Miyajima does a very nice presentation, but It took me years to setup the Miyajima up properly, and I have listened to all my mono records many times over, so the Miyajima will get a rest for now. 

Hardly ever post stuff on the net and neither do most of my audio acquaintances but .....

Urushi Wajima on several arms I have outperforms the Lyra and XV1s in my system comfortably. I never understood the criticism of soft bass etc on the Urushi. Mine slams hard and solid and is incredibly dynamic and musically fluid and less hifi'ish than those other 2. Loading on active stages around 100 ohms and with SUT, around 5 to 10 ohms. If you want to hear ridiculous midband dynamics with the Urushi, a really good SUT is the way to go. A transformer is the only way to get decent power transfer, though there may be limitations at the frequency extremes especially with inferior devices.
IMHO naturally. My audio buddies completely agree.

I know I’m late to this particular party, but....

All of these cartridges are hand made and, therefore, there will be some sample to sample variation. For example, I have an old Koetsu Black that sounds better than the several rosewood sigs and Urushi that I have tried long term. (I am very lucky in this regard, but, like acoustic guitars, sometimes you just happen to get one that is particularly sweet - those are the ones you should NEVER part with.).

That being said, it is time for the Koetsu Black to go back into suspended animation for a time (that’s how I’ve gotten it to last for ~30 years), and I have just ordered a Kleos for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that it mates perfectly with BOTH my SME IV tonearm and my preferred Cotter Mk.2L sut. Lyra EXPRESSLY recommends fixed bearing or linear trackers - so it should be no surprise to anyone if a Lyra cartridge doesn’t sound its best with a unipivot like the vpi, a fine tonearm but one which I believe was designed more for the higher compliance type cartridges that Harry Weisfeld seems to prefer.

This ain’t rocket surgery boys - and anyone spending $3k or $4k (or more) on a phono cartridge ought to at least be familiar with the basics of cartridge/arm matching, a critical factor in getting long term satisfaction from your analog rig.

That is all.