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Why are the vocals on some records hidden behind the music on my system?

Help! I am new to this forum, but have been into audio for over 45 years and have never had this problem before. I was lucky enough to come into some money and decided to use some of it to up grade my system for the first time in almost 30 yrs. The system consists of McIntosh MC-402, McIntosh C-100, McIntosh MCD-500, VPI HW19 MKIII, Soundsmith Aida, Furutech Ag-12 phono cable, Furutech silver head shell wires, Furutech interconnects and Furutech speaker cables (yes I like Furutech) and Raidho XT-3 speakers. Now on some albums the vocals are buried behind the music and you have a really hard time hearing the singer? Not all albums are voiced in this manner but enough that it is bothersome. I have a large dedicated man room (24 x 27) with minimum treatment. CDs sound just fine so I feel that it is with the phono preamp in the C-100? I have moved the speakers 100s of times and have them at 5' 8" apart and 8' 1" to the focal point and the soundstage is good and the vocals are better, but you still have to really listen hard to hear certain vocals on some albums. Most of my albums are 30 to 50 years old and have been cleaned with a sonic cleaner (best thing ever imho). Even some of my new heavy vinyl has this problem.
scooby2do
effischer
560 posts
 
I'm not surprised that you found adjusting VTA made a noticeable difference that brought you closer to your goal. IME, it's a super important adjustment; possibly the most important. Personally, I will only use tonearms with VTA adjustment on-the-fly capability. I tweak it for every LP I play with superb results.

That said, I still feel a cartridge that's a closer match to the preamp phono sections would be the way to go.  At a $2K potential budget for a phono stage, you can get a truly outstanding cart that matches either the MC or MM gain on the C100 (a high end rig by any measure).  Without another box between you and the music, BTW.

Even better would be a second hand Graham or Micro Seiki arm with VTA OTF and any one of a dozen <$1K LOMC or high end MM cartridges to mount on it at the same $2K overall.  That approach kills 2 birds with 2 stones (so to speak), and gives you a more flexible platform for the future. I also live in the sticks, and that is a key consideration for me.

Good luck with whatever you decide. Keep us posted and happy listening!

inna
7,296 posts
 
Really, just talk to Peter. He is an audiophile, he uses VPI tables, that's his cartridge - he should know how to proceed further. Might save you a lot of time and effort. 
I think, VTA and anti-skate should always be set by ear with setting VTA first. Take your worst sounding record with vocal and see if you can improve it. I also set VTF by ear, within factory specifications, I know where low and high points are on my arm with my cartridge. Funny activity is to find a compromise. 
inna
7,296 posts
 
Oh yeah, forgot to mention this. Clean a few records again, see if it makes a difference. Just in case.
uberwaltz's avatar
uberwaltz
13,381 posts
 
@effischer 
Are you saying you adjust the vta on every single lp you play?
If so you must be doing that until you like the sound correct?
If so is that not exactly what the op has been doing to set it up originally?
I know there are variances in record thickness but adjusting for every single record played sounds just a little obsessive to me and for myself would tend to spoil the experience of just sitting and listening to the music (well for 20 or so minutes at a time anyways...lol)
No criticism at all but it does sound like your method of adjusting "on the fly" for the sound is the same as the ops initial setting, which has been somewhat criticized by others here.
I set once with a medium weight record and leave, I hardly have any 180gm records as most of those are remasters or modern issues which just do not have the same appeal to my tastes again imho only!
effischer
560 posts
 
@uberwaltz 
Yes; I adjust for every side of every record.  My system easily resolves the difference and it only takes a moment.  The effect is substantial and very much worth the effort to me.  I recognize that not everyone is that picky or sensitive and that's just fine.  To each their own.   

I'd had a Rega with a LOMC for years and it just sounded like I was missing something.  I then went to a Magnepan Unitrac arm with the same cart and a whole new world opened up for me. That was in 1984 and I've never looked back. 

The OP just described the same effect after doing some more adjustment, so thought I'd share my experience on the point.  That's the joy of this hobby: Getting to happy listening. 

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