Thiel 2.3 vs 2.4 the real difference

The Stereophile measurements of the 2.3 were an anomaly. No other magazine showed the radical climb towards the treble that theirs did. I have used a Radio Shack sound meter and test CDs to chart my 2.3s in room and the speakers are remarkably flat. They actually look like they are down in the high treble until you add in the corrections for the Radio Shacks own tendency to be off at the frequency extremes. Also, check out the reviews of the 2.4. The brightness issue is mentioned in nearly every test, which was not the case with lots of the 2.3 reviews. Look at the NRC graphs on http://www.soundstageav.com/avreviews_speakers.html for interesting comparisons. Lots of speakers have, lets say, unusual concepts of flat. Thiel has no dip in the presence region that many do and thus come off bright by comparision. Together with the tendancy of CDs to be recorded a bit bright, for various reasons, and the package can make for a hard sound. But, when good recordings are played through Thiels the result can be wonderful.

Tim

Tim,

CD's are not recorded bright unless they are top 40 bound and my MLSSA and SoundEasy with B&K speaker measurement systems showed a dip and a rise on the four different pairs of CS2.3's I measured. In room response was ragged because off axis dips were high in Q causing excessive sibilance and other noises especially when the speaker was having to strain a little.

The CS2.3 was considerably brighter (to a fault) than any Sonus Faber, Dynaudio, Revel, Vienna Acoustic and Meridian speaker in the store. Personally I blame the lack of cone area as the biggest problem and distortion in the concentric driver.

"Look at the NRC graphs on www.soundstageav.com/avreviews... for interesting comparisons. Lots of speakers have, lets say, unusual concepts of flat. Thiel has no dip in the presence region that many do and thus come off bright by comparision."

I do...Lot's of speakers out there that aren't very good. and Remember I like the CS2.4 something I seem to not get credit for, that is a speaker that does it all very well. You will notice that the only instructions the NRC received from Thiel was the height at which the speaker should be measured. The CS2.4 is a complete design.

The CS2.4 enhances the Thiel reputation, the CS2.3 never was deserving of it and now never will be.

Cinematic_systems,

We have been over the Thiel issue before so I'll try to limit my comments to CD quality, as yours seems to be a minority opinion on the 2.3. I have read about 8-10 magazine/web writeups and it has been highly praised. Anyway, many classical CDs tend to be a bit bright as the mics are placed quite close and higher up than your ears would be in a concert hall. Thus, more treble is recorded than you would hear unless you sit on stage. Too many piano discs have the mic stuck inside the body of the instrument. You don't think that alters the sound compared to real life? Sit next to a violon being played and it can drill your ears in, but it may sound great farther away, as intended. I don't listen to much popular music but I understand that vocals are routinely "punched up" to pop out on the lesser speakers most of the public use. The fact that as many CDs sound as good as they do is amazing.

Tim

"I have read about 8-10 magazine/web writeups and it has been highly praised."

Name one of those media outlets that ever said anything negative about any Thiel speaker or any product they reviewed.

Bunkeromantik - aren't you the guy who asked me about my SimAudio W5 with my Thiels CS2.3? I can't speak for your listening room but in my room there is definitely a large suckout at about 3-4khz, the presence region. But the suckout is not as awful as the Stereophile measurements would suggest. This is according to the measurements taken from my Tact RCS. I've made a lot of changes to my system to accomodate some of the weaknesses I percieved in my system. The Tact RCS smoothed out the in-room response, correcting some lumpiness in the bass and filling in the suckout at 3-4khz. Changing my source transport gave me all the dynamic range I can stand. Changing my preamp gave me all the speed, tone, and fullness of sound that I desired. Now the sound is sometimes even a little fuller than I prefer but with all the top end extension and air than I require. Did I mention that my system can make cymbals shimmer like nobody's business.

A couple years ago I started a agon thread 'speakers that sounds like thiels on steroids' because I wanted a speaker with more dynamic range. Well I can happily say that I found that speaker and it is the same Thiels that I always had. My point is that there really was nothing seriously wrong with my speakers. All the changes made to my system were in other parts of the chain and the Thiels transparency rewarded my efforts by by letting the music shine through.

The only thing my system can't do yet is truthfully reproduce a drum kit. That is next when I add Thiel's subwoofer system.

Bunkeromantik - I think you are already on the right track in upgrading your components. It isn't clear that a suckout exists in your system. But if it is then it may still be there in the cs2.4's. I think the suckout is because of the mechanical crossover thiel uses in their midrange. I would strongly suggest Tact RCS or a similar product. It'll be less expensive than a new pair of speakers and more effective too.