Ortofon Red/Pro-ject Carbon Debut combination; rolled off hi-frequencies. Solutions?

morbius,

I own the  Pro-Ject Debut Carbon Esprit SB that shipped with the Ortofon 2M Red. Is this the table and cartridge you have?

I thought the table sounded pretty good right out of the box. I did notice a little less sparkle in the treble than I was expecting and I had hoped that break-in of the cartridge/stylus suspension would help it open up a bit. It did open up a bit after a few weeks of consistent play, however I still felt it should have a bit more sparkle in the treble. I starting trying a few things to see if I could get it to open up a bit more. Here's what I did......

Removed the felt mat - sounds more dynamic without the mat.

Set-up alignment - I went through a complete alignment of the cartridge. The factory alignment was off IMHO.

Cable - I replace the stock interconnect cable with an Audio Sensibility Impact SE phono cable. Immediately better.....

Replaced the 2M Red Stylus with a 2M Blue Stylus (the cartridge body is the same, so they are interchangeable). The blue is better across the board, including the treble. However, my cartridge moved when I installed the stylus and I need to go back through the alignment again.

That's my Pro-Ject Debut Carbon Esprit SB story. I'm pretty happy with the table at this point. I use it nearly daily and I enjoy the sound. I have a much more expensive digital rig, and I prefer the sound of the TT. It's just a more organic and engaging sound to me. With the replacement phone cable and stylus, I have about $900 new retail in the setup. Is it the best $900 combo setup you can buy? I have no idea. I would like to try other similarly priced setups, but I'm happy with my setup and not willing to spend any money searching for something different.


 

Thanks for your valued input, guys. Let me further detail my system setup...

My equipment is installed in a Soundesign metal rack on spikes. The turntable sits on the top of the rack on a 25 lb. slab of granite. I don't use a mat, the records are played resting directly on the acrylic platter. The stock Pro-ject feet are used. The both the Audioquest and Wireworld IC's used are 1meter in length. The capacitance of the inboard phono stage of the A3.2 is non adjustable and fixed at 47k Ohms.

Based on the feedback so far I'm in agreement with most everthing I've heard from the group. My original thought was to upgrade the cartridge (or stylus) first then consider an outboard phono stage with adjustable capacitance. First, I'll be recalibrating the alignment of the cartridge this afternoon, just to be sure.

Anymore input is appreciated. Thanks again.
morbius

2M Red is an excellent entry level cartridge. I had several of them and they did not lack detail. When I hear "lack of detail" the first thing that comes to mind is VTA.

Make sure your VTA is set correctly. With tracking force set at 1.8g (and verified with a gauge), set the arm down on an average thickness record and make sure the tonearm tube is parallel to the record's surface.

Sometimes this may may be hard to see. You can take cardstock paper, slightly narrower than the white line drawn in the center of your arm tube. Draw thin lines spread 1mm apart using a sharp pencil and ruller. Then gently and flatly place this piece of paper on the record's surface and prop it against the tonearm. 

Parallel should give you the best detail and bass and have an SRA of 90-92 degrees. Tonearm's tail too far down will result in muddy thick sound. Tail too far up can sound bright and sibilant. 

I don't believe your turntable has an easy VTA adjustment, so you'll have to get creative with shims, etc. 

I started out with the Pro-ject Debut Carbon and Ortofon Red.  It was ok, but not great.

Things to do -

1.  replace the original mat with a rubber mat.  I use the ones from the Technics 1200 series available from KAB USA
2.  change out the stylus to the one from the Ortofon blue
3.  change cartridges altogether.  The Shelter 201 is excellent. 

The pre-amp from the MF 3.2 is good.  No need to change.

This will make things appreciably better.  

Unfortunately, if you really get into records, you will find yourself upgrading the TT.   

Rich

@morbius2130aol

The capacitance of the inboard phono stage of the A3.2 is non adjustable and fixed at 47k Ohms.

This is load resistance set at 47k Ohm, but you can change it by replacing restistors if you want to upgrade for very little cost (of the actual vishay 100k Ohm resistors). It’s a big upgrade for ANY MM phono stage.

The capacitance set up by cables. I hope your setting is not totally off. You can play with everything like VTA, MAT, Capasistance, Tracking force, but i bet you will not hear any difference in a mediocre system. The more inportant is the cartridge!

Change the cartridge and you will change everything. If you don’t like the sound of your cartridge then it’s not "your cartridge". I don’t like 2M series of Ortofon carts, but some people like them for some reason. But do not buy another mediocre cheap modern mm cartridge, buy something good and much better. This is how it works. Cartridges are very different. When it comes to MM cartridges it is worth to read this thread. The favorite cartridges for many are not the today’s made MM, but those great MM from the old days of analog (70s/80s).

People who claims they are able to hear 0,15g difference in tracking force or a minor difference in mats on this particular turntable must have a "golder ears". I do not belongs to the people with "golden ears" (probably), but i have a dosen of vintage MM cartridges and they are making a huge difference in any system, even in the cheapest system with average headphones or in high-end system. Cartridge is the most important.

This Ortofon is easy to sell used, you will find a better cartridge for sure.