@nonoise
it's stone age gear with high end sound, does it count?
Blindjim > > Thanks.
synergy always matters. Tweaking a rig is a part of system arranging that aids performance. What, where, which, aren’t as important. Its results which are the gains being sought.
= = = =
@trelja
geoffkait hits the nail right on the head, "high end sound is all about sound, not anything else. Not “solid engineering.” Not blind tests. Not “scientifically valid arguments.” Not cost. It’s about sound."
Blindjim > uh. Well, if you say so.
Although, don’t you think that statement is simply restating the ideal and not the solution?
Certainly it is about sound. That is how one will subjectively separate High End from Also Rans and less competent fare.
Albeit, I’m absolutely sure those items with better builds and part compliments. Better designs, greater quality assurance control, and so forth will be those who reside in the High End, and not in the lesser groups.
Saying it is all about sound is redundantly distracting. It defines nothing. Settles not one item.
Its like saying you’ll need a measuring cup for what ever recipe, even though the recipe demands you use a quarter cup of this, a half cup of that, and a third cup of something else. .
The question here is hwere physically or most often physically, is the line separating the best in production from the rest of the gear in production.
The quandary is Not concerned with ‘how’, will we figure it out.
A VTL entry level preamp costs around $2.5K or so. the Cheapest Ypsilon preamp made costs $37K.
I’ve not heard either one but I strongly suspect there is a significant disparity in performance between these preamps, but they are both subjectively termed ‘entry level preamps. As such, we can’t even use the term ‘entry level’ as a disqualifier.
= = = = = =
@ejr1953
If you ask 100 people that same question, probably 90 or more of them will say "Bose".
Blindjim > LOL. Agreed.
However, it seems the other 90% aren’t real sure, or perhaps even capable of determining where satisfactory stops, and outstanding begins.
@ejr1953
If a you own a system that provides you with a lot of enjoyment, to me, that's worth a lot more than someone else's judgement on the components.
Blindjimn > once more you’ll get no argument from me on such notions whatsoever.
I’m gonna state HIGH END begins in general, at or above the mid range of the vast majority of electronics makers production lines. If a maker has several lines of goods, which escalate performance then I’d point to their upper tier line of goods as TRUE High End items. Often, I’d suspect in these cases, the range of products immediately preceeding the top tier array are likely to be added into the conversation commensurately.
Absolutely there are tons of Also Rans out there which if one never enters the big room at the local audio dealership, will survive and thrive in blissful ignorance, as these items and a lack of experience enables sufficient degree of satisfaction.
For me it was or is, like jumping on a 500cc scooter and grabbing a fistful of throttle rapidly. Then lifting a leg onto a 1500cc fire breathing pocket rocket and once again, suddenly molesting the throttle with extreme prejudice.
These are two vastly different experiences. Although, until you’re sitting in the saddle of the second motorbike and yanking its fun handle vigorously ya will never know. You can and or will suspect its better, faster, scarier, but you won’t ever know until you give ‘er a go.
In that case the line HAS to be between the 500cc scooter and those above it possessing greater displacement, as the logical deduction from the very small sampling being utilized.
it's stone age gear with high end sound, does it count?
Blindjim > > Thanks.
synergy always matters. Tweaking a rig is a part of system arranging that aids performance. What, where, which, aren’t as important. Its results which are the gains being sought.
= = = =
@trelja
geoffkait hits the nail right on the head, "high end sound is all about sound, not anything else. Not “solid engineering.” Not blind tests. Not “scientifically valid arguments.” Not cost. It’s about sound."
Blindjim > uh. Well, if you say so.
Although, don’t you think that statement is simply restating the ideal and not the solution?
Certainly it is about sound. That is how one will subjectively separate High End from Also Rans and less competent fare.
Albeit, I’m absolutely sure those items with better builds and part compliments. Better designs, greater quality assurance control, and so forth will be those who reside in the High End, and not in the lesser groups.
Saying it is all about sound is redundantly distracting. It defines nothing. Settles not one item.
Its like saying you’ll need a measuring cup for what ever recipe, even though the recipe demands you use a quarter cup of this, a half cup of that, and a third cup of something else. .
The question here is hwere physically or most often physically, is the line separating the best in production from the rest of the gear in production.
The quandary is Not concerned with ‘how’, will we figure it out.
A VTL entry level preamp costs around $2.5K or so. the Cheapest Ypsilon preamp made costs $37K.
I’ve not heard either one but I strongly suspect there is a significant disparity in performance between these preamps, but they are both subjectively termed ‘entry level preamps. As such, we can’t even use the term ‘entry level’ as a disqualifier.
= = = = = =
@ejr1953
If you ask 100 people that same question, probably 90 or more of them will say "Bose".
Blindjim > LOL. Agreed.
However, it seems the other 90% aren’t real sure, or perhaps even capable of determining where satisfactory stops, and outstanding begins.
@ejr1953
If a you own a system that provides you with a lot of enjoyment, to me, that's worth a lot more than someone else's judgement on the components.
Blindjimn > once more you’ll get no argument from me on such notions whatsoever.
I’m gonna state HIGH END begins in general, at or above the mid range of the vast majority of electronics makers production lines. If a maker has several lines of goods, which escalate performance then I’d point to their upper tier line of goods as TRUE High End items. Often, I’d suspect in these cases, the range of products immediately preceeding the top tier array are likely to be added into the conversation commensurately.
Absolutely there are tons of Also Rans out there which if one never enters the big room at the local audio dealership, will survive and thrive in blissful ignorance, as these items and a lack of experience enables sufficient degree of satisfaction.
For me it was or is, like jumping on a 500cc scooter and grabbing a fistful of throttle rapidly. Then lifting a leg onto a 1500cc fire breathing pocket rocket and once again, suddenly molesting the throttle with extreme prejudice.
These are two vastly different experiences. Although, until you’re sitting in the saddle of the second motorbike and yanking its fun handle vigorously ya will never know. You can and or will suspect its better, faster, scarier, but you won’t ever know until you give ‘er a go.
In that case the line HAS to be between the 500cc scooter and those above it possessing greater displacement, as the logical deduction from the very small sampling being utilized.
