Velodyne Digital Drive Series subwoofer in stereo

Truthseeker and Cryptical -- Excellent information -- thanks!

My Rel Storm 3 has its crossover set at about 28 hertz, and it sits in a corner. I am generally not finding that the deep bass localized to that corner. Instead, it seems to emanate from between the mains, possibly sometimes just off the midline towards the sub-bass unit, but usually not.

On the other hand, I had a passive subwoofer in the back of my van, and it was clearly localizable to.....the back of the van. I don't know what frequency the crossover was set at on the amp feeding the subwoofer in the van, however.

It's just a stone cold fact that 65hz bass (which is where I cross over my Velodyne with full range speakers) is not locatable because of the extreme -about 15 feet- wavelength. There is simply not enough phase difference from one side of your head to the other for your brain to differentiate. Anyone who thinks they can is hopelessly delusional. So there are ONLY 6 possibilities:

1. The guys who hear bass in stereo have sub/small satellite systems with their variable crossover frequencies set way too high.

2. The guys who hear bass in stereo are actually hearing the effect of room nodes from the unpredictable interaction of the two subs nearly identical output, and interpreting that as "better" bass.

3. The guys who THINK they can hear bass in stereo on CD's have suboptimal systems with audible distortion coming from their subs which allows them to "locate" the subs output.

4. The guys who are SURE they can hear bass in stereo on CD's have vivid imaginations, are gullible, and therefore probably own Wilson Watt/Puppies, too.

5. The guys who are SURE they can hear bass in stereo on LP's are hopeless romantics, because - I got bad news for you - it ain't there. Even Direct Disk recordings have to be mixed down properly through the board so you can play the damn thing back. Here's a quote from a basic LP mastering text,

"Why is it so important for mixes to be mostly in phase and the bass being in mono?

If the mix is in phase (mono), the cutter stylus will move from left to right - if the mix is out of phase (stereo) it causes the stylus to move up and down. Too much up and down movement (out-of-phase) will produce a groove that's too shallow or interrupted. This will cause the playback needle to jump, especially the bottom end is very critical. If the bass is in stereo, the cutter stylus will leave the surface of the record – the plate will be unusable."

6. And last - They guys who ACTUALLY CAN hear stereo bass have HUGE HEADS - so their ears are far enough apart that the long wavelengths present enough phase shift. Of course, these guys can't use traditional headphones, and the large head has very negative WAF.

Opalchip you come across like the cock of the walk with the tone of your last post. Tell you what my friend..how about you turn off that subwoofer. Use only your fullrange speakers, take one and cut it's low frequency extention off at 65 Hz. Listen to some well recorded full scale music in stereo.
Come back and tell me you can't hear an improvement running both speakers full range in stereo. I'll tell you.. you need to find a new hobby!

I've read some of the scientific papers you touch on. But it still can't explain what the human ear perceives as a whole.If everything you say is the absolute. Maybe most of us only need one full range speaker and a matching monitor.. since we can't distinguish mono from stereo bass any way.

What kind of bass are you talking about? Acoustic Bass,synthesized crap or movie bass.

Au contraire, the tone of my last post was intended to put some reality into the guys who were bashing Truthseeker personally without offering one shred of backup other than their own unique "experience". And they still aren't, other than the "magical human ear" theory - which is far less plausible than the "magic human imagination" theory, formerly known as the placebo effect, or the out-of-phase sound effect.

The 65 Hz crossover point was custom chosen for me to match my speakers by Velodyne themselves at LOWER than the stock sub's point. And obviously it's not an infinite slope crossover so my mains are operating well below 65hz. The stock Velodyne DD-18, by the way, has a fixed, built in high-pass at 80hz. But I guess there's people here who know more than the Velodyne engineers.

Quick quiz - Do you know how low 65 hz. actually is? It's the very LOWEST note on a cello or a BASS trombone. Tenor trombone's lowest is 82 hz. The very lowest note written for a human bass voice is the same. Low E on a Guitar is also at about 82hz. Timpani - 87 hz. The very LOWEST note an acoustic double bass or bass tuba can possibly play is about 42 to 44hz. And nearly all the notes played even on double bass or tuba are above 63 hz and up to 300 hz. They're not down there banging the low E in every measure.

So what kind of bass are you all talking about? Exactly what instruments or pieces of music sound so much better in "stereo" bass? Organ and Tuba duets?