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Upgrading path from Merlin VSM black magic

Goal:
I have been tinkering with the idea of upgrading and investing in floor standers that are superior in every way compared to Merlins. What are the Merlin users upgrading to? budget is 25k or under (used market value).
My present system:
I am using my Merlins VSM Black magic with dual BAMs with Coincident tech Frankenstein mono block amps (300B SET) and coincident tech line-state and phono preamp. Whole system is wired with Cardas clear cables. Using EMM XDS-1 and VPI classic turntable. System was built around Merlins. I suppose I might have to pick electronics suitable for the replacement speakers and in that case will build the whole system again. Preferably, I would like to keep the front end electronics/amps/pre-amp etc.
My music taste:
I listen mostly Jazz, Classical and vocals. 
My room:
I had Merlins setup in 12x16x8 room which was fully treated. I have since moved to a larger-ish space 15' x 21' x 9'. The room is not treated yet but would be fully treated with absorption panels/diffusors etc in the near future. I setup speakers with ears and with RoomEq software. 
Why not Merlins .. ??
I have thoroughly enjoyed Merlins but sometime feel it can sound a little thin and won't reach the lowest bass. Larger sound stage is desired. Full scale classical music can have better depth, width and weight. I have been using various versions of Merlins since 2009 and have the last version produced (Black magic) with dual BAMs. I have purchased two Funk Audio subwoofers that I have not integrated with the system yet. Merlin is not very subwoofer friendly anyways.
What I am looking for:
Ideal speakers would get from "Merlin" its neutral, resolving, transparent, low distortion, dynamic character. On top would also deliver fuller sound (top to bottom), be a full range down to 20Hz, provide bigger sound stage and has a more organic / relaxing sound (..better emotional connectivity). Speakers should be tube friendly, (preferably SET or OTL).
Brands:
There are simply too many out there. These brands come to mind: dynaudio, magico, sonus-faber, mbl, B&W, wilson audio, rockport, jm-labs, dunlavy, wilson benesch.  I am sure someone who has owned Merlins and made a move can give their input. Even a short list to audition would be helpful. I am based out of Orlando area. Would be great If any local member has a system that they can allow me to audition.
Past experience:
Other notable speakers I have owned in past include original Flocal Utopias (mezzo to grand Utopia), B&W nautilus series, Quad 989 among others. Yesterday's nautilus 800, 802 were power hungry and sounded boxy. This may not be the case with the newer models.  I feel like I am out of touch with what is out there. Have been out of market for long. 
Thanks.



celestial_audio
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signaturesound
83 posts
 
Sorry for being off topic again, but I want to point something out for Ars Sonum Filarmonia (and Gran Filarmonia) owners that may see this thread. The designer of the amp (Ricardo Hernandez) does not recommend using KT77's in his amp.This is not a reflection on the KT77 (I know the new production Genalex Gold Lion KT77 is a very nice tube), but in the nature of the design of the Ars Sonum amplifiers. So, if you want to roll output tubes in a Ars Sonum amp, stick to EL34 (or E34L) tubes please.

P.S. I have tried the new JJ EL34II in my Filarmonia SK and found it very nice (fuller/sweeter - more tubey if you will than the E34L). I also have a customer who has a set of the (pricey) Sophia Electric EL34's in a Filarmonia and is very pleased with them.

Cheers
Rich
sturgus
68 posts
 
I have an older pair of Merlin's. I have a BAM with a custom made P/S that replaced my battery BAM. I run a pair of old Dahlquist Subs with the Dahlquist LP-1 crossover driven by an 150 watt Musical Design amp. I run the Merlins full and bring the subs in right at 35hz. This really works well in my system. My next step is to have the Black Magic crossover mod done by Rich from Sig Sound. You could try a pair of subs and see if that does it for you. I would also look up Swarm and see if it that might pic your interest.
celestial_audio OP
73 posts
 
Even though I have not made the move yet as I have been experimenting with subs, I thought I will chime in on couple of things. 
Needless to say integrating subs is real pain but could be rewarding. I am not there yet but inclined to endorse the route.
@twoch, you might want to reduce the distance between the speakers (bring them closer to 6.5 ft and then move them out to maybe 7ft). IMO they sound fuller when placed closer especially in a narrow room. I like mine toed out where they cross behind the head (my room allows decent distance from the side wall).
@signaturesound, I have no experience with devore gibbons but just checked their website. O/96 choice is interesting as their spec'ed Sensitivity: 96dB/W/M would make them ideal for SET amps. 
Wonder if anybody has any experience with these and how they compare to Merlins.
Lastly, we have couple of other good recommendations that I would check.. Egglestonworks Andra III SE and Silverline Bolero Supreme. 
One thing that is top on my mind is to upgrade/modify the BAM.
Also, on side note, vintage Mullard El34 were the best tubes I had rolled when I owned Filarmonia and then Gran Filarmonia.

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signaturesound
83 posts
 
@sstalwar

Glad to hear it sounds like you are making some progress...

A update from some customers on a few things that may interest you (and others here):

One customer just got a JL subs (one of their e-sub models) and is running them from the speaker connections using the Ars Gran Filarmonia amp and Merlin VSM's with BAM (VSM hooked in parallel with the sub, not through it - blending the sub in below 40 to 50Hz). So far he is telling me that the combo is "awesome"

In regards to Devore's. My customer with Gibbon X's and the Ars Sonum Gran Filarmonia (and he also has the smaller Filarmonia too) keeps telling me the combo is of the two is great (and I should be a Devore dealer)..... My point is the Gibbon X's while not as efficient as the Orangutan series, they do well with tubes - probably not low power SET is the best match for them.

I've heard the Organgatan's at RMAF (I was in the Devore room a couple of times during the show - its was quite good).... while very good, the character is different then the VSMs. They struck may as a bit more robust in the mid-bass and a bit sweeter up top. Very good staging and musicality though - probably a great match for OTLs (Atma-Sphere or my personal favorite - Joule-Electra's) not just low power transformer coupled tube amps.

One final note for VSM owners, I have been making some progress on testing some improvements to the (Battery) BAM - focusing on that would (I hope) make some (cost effective) improvements to it. I have a prototype unit burning in right now.


jordi's avatar
jordi
110 posts
 
i read this thread with deep interest.  First of all the size of the room does matter with the Merlin VSM get past 16X16 and they get swallowed up.
First thing that has to be done is the BAM must be inserted into the musical stream BEFORE the preamp NOT after.  THE DIFFERENCE IS MASSIVE IN THE BASS DEPT.
2nd thing is go to Lowes and get a pair 12"X12" 1/4" thick steel plate and accurately drill 4 holes to mount directly to the speakers and then 4 holes for the spiked feet into the plate.  Massive difference
Then get yourself some amplification that can do the job 
My favorite is the Quicksilver 6C33C 50 watt TRIODES (hard to find) but second is the ARS SONUM Filharmonia 30 WATT PER CHANNEL
I also love the DH LABS Deity speaker Cable yes expensive but worth every penny and DH Labs Revelation for all your IC's Expensive but worth it.
Get some Charcroft resistors and some Duelund for the back of the speakers RC network
And finally purchase a HATTOR AUDIO active and passive (combo) about 4K but  the best you can buy Arek's top of the line separates preamp as he is making the best attenuators out in the audio kingdom and if your so motivated replace his capacitors with Duelund
All of this combined will make the best sound in the universe.
BUT REMEMBER THERE IS NO CHEAP WAY OUT WITH MERLIN ...QUALITY IN QUALITY OUT PERIOD.  IF YOUR THINKING I'LL SKIMP SOMEWHERE YOUR FOOLING YOURSELF.  As a gentleman said on Audio Review...."what do you get when a genius workds all his life on ONLY 2 speaker models...you get PERFECTION. "
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