2. amps-preamps
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Can pro amps possibly sound good? Crown, QSC, etc

I have been looking into pro amps for a to-be-built HT/music room. Recently I came across an old review in The Stereo Times: The Complete Audiophile Magazine, which reviewed 2 discontinued Crown amps, the K2 and the Studio Reference I. The K2 the reviewer thought "not distinguished or especially musically refined", but the Studio Ref he thought an EXCELLENT full-range amp. It does have some amazing specs:

Signal-to-Noise (A-weighted) below rated full bandwidth power: 120 dB.
Damping Factor: >20,000 from 10 Hz to 400Hz.
780WPC into 8 ohms, 1160WPC into 4 ohms.

The review is here.

From what I've found so far, there are possbile downsides to using pro gear in an otherwise consumer setup, but in my case I think these are non-issues:

-fan noise: not an issue for me since I will have an equipment closet. Won't have to do a "fan mod".

-ugly: again, not an issue for me with an equipment closet

-hum: I believe not an issue as long as I use balanced interconnects from the prepro. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

-expects pro-level input levels: I think not an issue if the amp has dip switches or gain controls?

And yet, over on a couple of AVS forum threads, I actually got asked to leave when I started suggesting pro amps. It seems as though some of the audiophiles there (and the same guys might be over here) don't even want to hear about a class of gear which imo just MIGHT sound good. It just isn't worth "polluting" an audiophile thread. Am I missing some other downside to pro amps, other than the above pints? Were these guys attitudes based on something substantive and audibly detectable, or just a form of audio bigotry?

I'm not saying all pro amps are going to be great (for instance I know the Behringer A500 is lousy), but might there be some good stuff too, like QSC DCA, or Crown Macro Reference (other suggestions would be welcome)?
syswei
snapsc
675 posts
 
No doubt I'm a little biased as I currently have a Crown XLS2000 for sale, but here are my observations after 4 years of use:

-  massive soundstage, very wide but only moderately deep
-  very powerful low end
-  top end is not sibilant but also not silky smooth...pretty revealing
-  complex passages are done well but not as well as a multi$$$$ amp
-  stable at 2 ohms
-  absolutely silent, black backgrounds and fan never comes on
-  tons of power...1050 watts at 2 ohms per channel
-  gain controls...fantastic way to match to the source so that the source volume isn't maxed out at 9 o'clock, great way to match to a subwoofer preamp out so that the sub gain doesn't have to be turned to 4 o'clock and great way to match left right main volume without a balance control
-  Reliability
-  Absolutely never thumps my loudspeakers when turning on/off or when my preamp or source turn on/off
-  Relatively inexpensive @ $500 new

Yes, I think in certain systems, in certain rooms, with certain sources, you may prefer a $1000 Halo (or something similar) but in addition to the price, you are giving some things up.

Maybe its not someone's cup of tea for their main system, but I suspect they would be pretty happy on a value/sound benchmark to use pro audio in their secondary system.

(and why am I selling it if its so good?....easy answer, its fun to try different things and there is only so much space in the house)
wolf_garcia
6,696 posts
 
In my studio area with the piles of bass and guitar amps and a synth, I use an ancient (relatively) Alesis RA 100 (no fans, just large heatsinks) amp powering a pair of Mackie 10" 2 way C200 P.A. speakers on stands, with a 500 watt HR120 (discontinued, bought it lightly used for about 150 bucks) 92 lb. sub (flat to 19hz). The Alesis has big level control knobs on the front, and I mix things (keyboards, drum machine, recording interface, with the sub through a monitor fader) through a small Mackie mixer. The Alesis is a bullet proof 100 watt workhorse that never fails. You can buy these things for almost nothing…even the later versions with balanced inputs.  Note that the QSC I noticed at Magico was the same model as mine…a GX3 that retails for around 300 bucks or less.
willemj
1,036 posts
 
See here for a serious test of the 2x350 watt Yamaha P3500s: http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/amplificateurs-de-puissance-haute-fidelite/mesures-ampli-yamaha-p...
I recently bought the 2x250 watt P2500s for my son, and it is as good as any high end amplifier, with more power than most, and far cheaper (I paid 300 euros, or about $350).
These both have variable speed fans that will not ever come on at domestic levels. And, of course, they are built like a tank.
auxinput
2,920 posts
 

I have had experience with Crown amps of both Class AB and Class I (modified Class D) variety.  The Crown pro amps are very nice, but they are built to be able to push a lot of watts and be very durable.  The CTS600, which was a Class AB amp, was very good, but it sounded somewhat dry.  The CTS200, which was Class I and an evolution of the original Crown K2 amp, sounded good and has good bass strength, but had tube-like overtones in the sonic signature.

In both cases, my Channel Island D200 Class D amps and Emotiva monoblocks were significant improvements in sound quality.

Pro amps have their place is live audio and abusive environments, but I don't think they will ever take the place of true audiophile amplifiers.

wolf_garcia
6,696 posts
 
I use thousands of watts in a live show, 12 single ended tube amp watts per side for my hifi rig (well…not counting my subs).
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