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Waiting on 802D3 to arrive -- Will I need a sub?

It's a rainy gray Sunday afternoon here in Atlanta today. I probably have better things to do but I've spent hours reading and researching trying to ascertain if I will need a subwoofer(s) once my B&W 802D3 arrive here in another week or so.

I can't decide and so I've decided to try posting here and crowdsource an answer, ha ha!

My goal is to create a system that will allow me to listen to 2-channel music for hours on end without fatigue.  The room is my living room and is a quasi open floorplan. It is around 24 feet long by 18 feet wide.  There are 10ft ceilings with an open stairwell back behind the seating position and an opening to my dining room that adds another 400 square feet or so of floor space.

Previously I've had B&W 804D2 towers with two B&W ASWCM10 powered subs.  I've sold the towers and the subs and am waiting on 802D3 to arrive as mentioned above.  The 804D2 absolutely had to have the subs.  The bass just wasn't there without them unless I really cranked the volume up.

So as I sit here I'm wondering if I made a mistake in selling my subs already.  With the 802's will I miss them or will those guys have me covered for 2 channel listening?

If it's likely that I will still need a sub (or 2) what do you guys think would be a good match to the 802D3?

Here is the rest of my equipment in case its helpful in offering an opinion:

Preamp:

·     PS Audio BHK Signature Preamplifier

Amplifiers:

·     Qty. 2: PassLabs XA60.8 Monoblocks

Inputs:

·     PS Audio DirectStream Junior (DAC)

·     VPI Traveler 2

·     Audio Technica AT33EV Phonograph Cartridge

·     Apple TV 4K 

Power:

·     Qty. 2: PS Audio P5 Power Plant

 Other:

·     Pro-Ject Tube Box S Phono PreAmplifier

 Speakers:

·     Bowers-Wilkins 802D3


Thanks!
Bryce
brycethomason
gat3's avatar
gat3
0 posts
 
Nice room... after seeing it, I think the low end will be more than adequate in your space - especially after seeing where the left speaker is placed in the corner.  You will likely have tremendous bass build up there.

If you’re not listening extremely loud with extremely heavy bass content, Your amplifiers will be just fine.  Could you get more from the 802’s with more power? ... absolutely!  But I think you’ll be thrilled.  Some tasteful room treatments and proper bass trapping would be of more benefit than anything else I’d venture to guess.
mgould
11 posts
 
I have three of the 802 d3s across the front of my listening/theater room. They sound great. I also have a DB1 subwoofer that I ordered at the same time. Honestly, I am still fooling around with the DB1 settings and also the lower frequency settings on the MX160 to get punch from the sub. But as to your question, the 802s sound really great even without a sub. I have played them both ways, with and without subs and I can tell you I here subtle differences while playing them. I listen to many different types of music and movies through them and they do sound great without a sub. Everything from dave mathews to star wars has been played through them. I would just keep them from the back wall about a foot or so. Set them up and see for yourself if you need a sub.
joey_v
653 posts
 
So when’s the speaker coming Bryce?
gawdbless's avatar
gawdbless
1,235 posts
 
A friend of mine has the 802D?, and to my ears, they do not need a sub.
Deep bass aplenty.
auxinput
2,920 posts
 

I just came into this conversation and would like to make a comment.  I would highly caution against many statements that say the XA60.8 will not be enough to power the 802 D3 speakers.  The XA amplifier is a full Class A amp, which means it is biasing the output stage to push a constant 60 watts at all times, even if the speaker is not using it (the un-used power in a Class A ends up being heat generated by the transistor through the heat-sink. 

Many conventional Class AB amps will be biased into Class A for a very small amount - typically anywhere from 1 watt to 8-10 watts.  (Sometimes it can be biased as high as 20-30 watts).  However, it will never require as much A/C power as a 60 Watt Class A monoblock.  The power supply has to be significantly over built on a  Class A amp to be able to provide 60 watts of current without any drop in voltage.

On a conventional Class AB amp. the amplifier will draw a constant amount based on it's Class A bias (1 watt to 8 watts).  Music transients can push into the 200-400 watt area for less than a second, but then the 60hz A/C voltage is still enough to bring the voltage back up in the power supply capacitor bank.  It's a completely different requirement.

If you look at the weight of the XA60.8 monoblock, it is 88 lbs, which is a very large monoblock amplifier.  The Parasound JC1 is only 64 lbs, but it will output 400 watts and this is easily able to drive the 802 D3.

If you compare weight (which really is a representation of transformer weight and heatsink), the weight of the XA60.8 Class A amplifier equals the weight of the X260.8 monoblock amplifier exactly (both are exactly 88 lbs).

If you look at the common weight of a 100 watt amplifier, you will find that the weight is typically something like 20-40lbs per channel.  I would say that a 100 watt amp may have problems driving the 802 D3.   However, something like the XA60.8 would theoretically have no problems because of its significantly large power supply.

If someone here has actually driven a set of B&W 802 speakers with a Pass XA60 amplifier, please comment on your opinions for the ability to drive the speakers.  For all others who are speaking mostly from Class AB points-of-view, please hold your comments unless you have experience with a full Class A amplifier.

In my own theory, I don't think the XA60 will have any problem at all driving the 802 D3 speakers.

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