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How about B & W 803S

Recently, there is a 2nd hand B & W 803S in our dealer in Taiwan which cost US$4,300.  It is said that the production period of 803S is the same as 803D, but the 803S has aluminum tweeter instead of diamond tweeter in the 803D.  Since my listening room is not big, the area is 3m in each direction (from ear to speakers, and speaker to speaker and the ceiling height.). I live in the apartment that means downstair and both sides have neighbors.  I don't want to bother them much for when I turn up volume, I usually keep it adequate, sometimes when it is lounder, I would close doors or windows. At current, I use Accuphase C275V+ A47 power Amp. & Dynaudio 1.3SE.  The quality of sound is OK, but sometimes, I feel the shape of the instrument is a bit slim. Do you think it is good idea to switch to 803S in my listening condition. My favorite music is classical music and long period of audiophile. Tks. in advance if someone can provide opinion about the sound of 803S or 803D (for there is also a 2nd hand in the store for US$7,000).
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hifineubee
56 posts
 
Hi, you're correct that 803S has aluminum tweeter and 803D has synthetic diamond (thin slice of film) tweeter.   803D is bigger in size than 803S and now 803 D3 is even bigger than 803D.  The major difference between 803S and 803D is the upper high frequency.  With the first generation of D series, B&W tried to aim for popular market and made the D series with very high frequency range but many audiophiles responded negatively to the much brighter sound.  With D2 B&W started dialing back on the high frequency and now D3 almost back to S series high frequency range but much lower low frequency.  In my opinion you should avoid the first generation D series.   In you apt size, 803S is probably a poor investment.  The big speakers and the numerous woofers need lots of current to push and you wont be able to produce a lot of current in low sound volume (running at lower watts).  My recommendation is that you go for a B&W 805 and pair it with a subwoofer.  This way you can turn on and off the subwoofer to avoid disturbing your neighbors at night time and the 805 is relatively easier to drive with your low power Class A amp without the extra bass woofers.  I have 805S myself running with high current Marantz HD AMP1 with 35watts 8ohm, my room is 30% bigger than yours, with great results.
faust168's avatar
faust168 OP
74 posts
 

Dear Hifineubee,

Thank you very much for your kind reply.  I can see that you are quite familiar with B & W speaker series system. One of the audio dealer also has same opinion about the lip &mouth's friction (high frequency) produced by B & W's tweeter.  Also, I can aware some abnormal high frequency response on the B & W D seriesspeakers on the Youtube. The obstruction of the high frequency sounds odd. That means they are not smooth.


As for the 805D3, I have seen HiFi + web review that the speaker need to be played with higher volume. I think it would not be normal for I have heared the speaker,but with high volume, it would bring stress either on the ears as well as psychology pressure.

Recently, I pay attention to the listneing surroundings in HongKong's audiophiles. As you might know that most of Hongkong's home are rather samll, but as I notice  that many of the audiophile in there have owned more than one system or with complicated accomodations with various accessories to bring up their sound better.  You can find they have small speakers more than one pair, but also they have various gears to serve them. Some small space also use big size speakers. 


I'll consult with the experienced audio dealer in Taipei about your opinion and hope I can get the conclusion for my next step with better sound.  Anyway, thank you very much for your generous sharing of precious knowledge about B &W speakers.

See you again.

  


hifineubee
56 posts
 

Hi faust, best of luck to you.  To avoid typing a lot more information, just sharing one more personal experience to help you on your quest with B&W,

1) Go find 蔡琴's 1bit /2.8224MHz 精選 in DSD/DSF and listen to the superbly remastered '恰似你的溫柔' and '被遺忘的時光' on the B&W 800 series.  In particular '恰似你的溫柔' has very sharp guitar strings (too sharp in this recording in my opinion, Eagle's Hotel California from their Live concert (Japan version) has far better guitar recording) that really test your gear pairing.  Keep in mind that, living up to reputation, B&W 800 series will quickly make your previously 'ok' music records sound 'bad'.  Be sure you always find the best music recordings when you evaluate these speakers.  If you like classical music, try demo with 大植英次 and Minnesota Orchestra that was awarded best recording by Reference Recording.

2) Make sure the B&W is powered by reputable gear like Mcintosh (avoid tube amp or other fancy homemade stuff used by self proclaimed audiophiles until you learn familiarity).  The amp you use 'must' double down in power (ex:100watt @8ohm, 200watt @4ohm, 400watt@2ohm), your Accuphase Class A is actually perfect on paper for B&W 800series.

3) Use a good modern 32bit DAC/player that properly handles DSD CDs.

4) Use quality cable at least 12AWG.

5) ***Most important of all, make sure the speakers are broken in.  B&Ws take at least 200-400hrs to start to break in.  Even used speakers that hadn't been played for a while also require some break in period.  B&W factory officially recommends this.  My first pair of 805N (18yrs old speakers), took me nearly three weeks.  So many hi-fi amateurs evaluate B&W 800 series out of the box and without proper gear pairing out there it's sad how these uninformed people tarnish B&W's quality reputation.

Enjoy!

-sorry guess I did end up typing a lot anyway

faust168's avatar
faust168 OP
74 posts
 

Dear Hifineubee,

Thank you again for your kind response.

According to your opinion, I have to re-arrange my system either in hardware such as DSD DA and software such as high resolution software which cost a lot. 

I can't deny that splendid recording would be able to add sparkling in the music appreciation, but I do not want to drop up what I have now except some poor or sleeping stuffs ( I mean software). When I visit to the audio shops, some times I can discover something unknown before.

The key issue is that I can't afford to spend much to re-tool my current gears.  What I can do best now is to find out the way or to squeeze the best C/P on my current system. Or with limit budget such as US$3~5000, make some improvement investment  even though my ear are pretty not bad on music appreciation and audio comparison.


Do you live in Taiwan, if you would, we can change Line for easier communication.  My Line is:faust061168    and my name is Mr. You.


Thanks a lot once more.

 

 


hifineubee
56 posts
 

Hi faust,

     Unfortunately I'm not in Taiwan, I'm located in Seattle, USA area.  But if you ever visit my city I welcome you to drop by for a demo of my budget setup.  =)  I don't use LINE but I use WeChat.  You can private chat me for my WeChat name.

    Back to music and speakers.  First of, my apologies I forgot to ask if you're a computer, CD or vinyl person.  If you can tell me more about your setup, I can give you more advices from my experience to help you spend the least amount of money (I personally am very frugal as well, haha).

    My goal is to try to help you listen to the B&W speakers with a guarantee baseline.  Based on my experience with B&W, I can help you demo these speakers with gears that guarantee to sound good with the 800series, then you can decide for yourself how the speakers perform under ideal circumstances, hopefully by using common consumer audio equipment available at good audio shops.  You don't necessarily need to buy any of the gears I recommend.  You just need to know how the speaker sound at their best while demoing at the shop, then you can slowly upgrade your own equipment over time at get to whatever level of C/P you deem acceptable.

Below are purely my personal opinions:

    #1 reason contributing to people complain B&W speakers are bright sounding is because they listen with equipment and speakers that are not warmed up or not broken in.  My 805N and 805S were both HORRIBLE to listen to until they're broken in.  Once broken in, they're so transparent that they sound cold and brittle if an amp has not properly warmed up.

    #2 reason contributing to people complain B&W speakers are bright sounding is because they pair the speakers with wrong amp.  B&W 800 series require amp, like your Class A Accuphase, that can double down power.  Most amps can only do x1.6 (ex: 100watt at 8ohm, 160watt at 4ohm).  There's scientific math behind this, but in layman's term, in order to maintain quality sound across all frequencies an amp must provide stable 'quality' current across the entire ohm range that the speakers perform at.  For the B&W800 series, it means using amps that at minimum double down in watt from 8ohm to 4ohm and preferably further double again to 2ohm (a Mcintosh with autoformer while expensive to many, is actually among the cheapest amps that can double down from 4ohm to 2ohm) because the 800series dip as low as 3.7ohm which is below 4ohm.

   #3 reason contributing to people complain B&W speakers are bright sounding is because they use cheap speaker jumpers while directly plugging into the upper speaker terminals.  B&W 800 series are built to be bi-amped at best (which most of us wont ever be able to afford), bi-wired at minimum (recommended by factor) and jumpers as last resort.

And the list goes on as we go up the equipment chain... =)

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