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How about B & W 803S

Recently, there is a 2nd hand B & W 803S in our dealer in Taiwan which cost US$4,300.  It is said that the production period of 803S is the same as 803D, but the 803S has aluminum tweeter instead of diamond tweeter in the 803D.  Since my listening room is not big, the area is 3m in each direction (from ear to speakers, and speaker to speaker and the ceiling height.). I live in the apartment that means downstair and both sides have neighbors.  I don't want to bother them much for when I turn up volume, I usually keep it adequate, sometimes when it is lounder, I would close doors or windows. At current, I use Accuphase C275V+ A47 power Amp. & Dynaudio 1.3SE.  The quality of sound is OK, but sometimes, I feel the shape of the instrument is a bit slim. Do you think it is good idea to switch to 803S in my listening condition. My favorite music is classical music and long period of audiophile. Tks. in advance if someone can provide opinion about the sound of 803S or 803D (for there is also a 2nd hand in the store for US$7,000).
128x128faust168
hifineubee
56 posts
 
Slight correction, the 803S drips as low as 3.0 ohm.
faust168's avatar
faust168 OP
74 posts
 

Dear Hifineubee,


Thanks for you to take so much precious time in replying my inquiry.

Though, I have long time of music listening experience. But I am in short of technology knowledge about audio except the listening. I can tell the difference with the changing of the wire or toe in angles, but I don't know the change of ohms such kind of technical terms.

I have 1000 pcs. of LP before, but long time ago, I switch to CD. The player I am using now is Quad CD99 player which was made in China, but it sound is quite OK (thickness, details, sound stage, positioning of performer...).  Also,  I use an optical output for the D/A converter which brand is California Audio Lab, a bankrupcy old brand with one 12AX7 tube inside. 2 years ago, I went to consult with an audio shop, the boss told me that even I switched to use the one he sold, Naim, the sound improvement is quite limited. So, I just kept on using my old D/A.  Generally, I don't have much time for music listening for I need to spare some time for watching satellite business news from Japan for I am still at work.  It is kind of my hobby to learn new business management stuffs either in the library or in the video media. Also, some of the Japan's satellite programs have advantages: They spend money to produce good programs and you can enjoy them on free basis. Of course, they have paid channels either.  But since I don't have much time, it won't bother.

As the Amplifier, I have an Accuphase C275V (15 years, I bought a 2nd hand one) which is a mid level pre, and the A-47  (2 years) which is also a middle A class power.  The wire I am using is mainly Onix (an England brand but sold to Taiwan audio distirbutor boss who also acts as German's MBL's distributor in Taiwan.).

In fact, I do listen to the satellite news mostly on earphone, Grado open air for comfortable consideration and won't bother other family members. I spent lots on earphone system with good wire, powerline, headphone amp. (Sara Lee, England brand) and Senheiser HD 600 with the Mobius wire (1.5m) for clarity sound. The power line for earphone is Telos (local brand, but expensive).  Once I try to change the power line for the earphone with a cheaper wire, but my ears won't accept the changing of sound.  

Yesterday, I visited a audio shop who is concentrated on the expensive LP system.  The boss is selling LP player around US$150,000 & the Swiss cartridge cost US$25,000. He told me that I might unable to accept the speaker sound other than Dynaudio such as England's PMC, Tannoy, ATC, except B & W which has Diamond tweeter. He regards that England speaker's high frequency response is a bit dark. That is why Tannoy sell super tweeter to cover it's shortage.  He suggests me to consider Dynaudio Contour 30 which is the successor of Dynaudio's mid level speaker system with standing floor design which can reproduce better bass when compare with my current 1.3SE which is a bookshelf type. At current, I just try to listen more in comparison, I have not made any decision yet for it might be my last speaker in my life..............

Tks. for your reading my long expression........


Best Regards,


faust



 

  


 


hifineubee
56 posts
 
Hi faust,
     I've just received my pair of B&W 805 D3 today and I'm so stoked!  I can now give you more objective feedback on the S vs D series B&W 800 series speakers.
    Thanks for taking the time introducing yourself above, now I have much better idea what sort of audiophile you are.  In general, in the most complimenting way, I think you're very much like my father in speaker taste;
低音要厚實, 交響樂需要氣勢, 但不要胸部撞擊感覺 (British Rega tends to have this chest pounding bass feel)
中音要厚,甜,溫暖, 最好女聲可以聽起來像談情說愛
高音要圓滑, 不能刺耳,  高音是不是很高反而不很重要
    If above assumptions are correct, then B&W are definitely speakers that'll meet those expectations.  Keeping below very simple, if you want more details on anything, just let me know.

Answer previous questions,
1)  803S vs 803D - save the money and go with 803S
2)  Obstruction of frequency - I would call it stuttering or sudden change in sound quality/volume, I just experienced this with the 805D3 out of the box and this is normal too with my previous 805S and 805N.  It's both because the woofers need break in and also because the amp is not supplying enough current reserve to push the dynamic range.  Not speakers fault, solution here is to break in the speakers for a month at least and get better amp (aka. the big round cylinders you see on Mcintosh and other expensive amps).
3) Diamond tweeters very bright.  So far D3 tweeters are less bright than the older S.
4) 805 D3 has to be played at high volume to sound good.  This is not true in my listening environment and I feel confident that it is due to the reviewer's amp not good enough.  The reviewer paired an amp that does x1.8 not x2 going from 8ohm to 4ohm, so he's attempted to compensate the drop in current by raising volume (more watt).  I also previously demoed the 805 D3 at local hifi store using new high end Mcintosh listening in normal volume.

Purely minor suggestions on your equipment below, please don't be offended.  You have very good equipment in general but from a simplicity and budget conscious perspective, you have a very complex setup.  You have 9 links
1 cd player,
1 preamp
1 amp
3 x power cords
1 optic cable from cd to preamp
1 RCA/XLR from preamp to amp
1 pair speaker cables
each above all influence final sound coming out of your speakers and your system will always sound as good as the weakest part.  In comparison, my system only has 4 links and hope to reduce to 3 links in the future.  I know you don't want to make big changes so I suggest here that your CD player and optic cable should be updated to take advantage of latest high definition quality CDs.  Ideally something with XLR output that'll allow you to bypass your preamp.  Let me know if you want detailed explanation.

Other speaker suggestions in your price range,
- B&W 805D3 & 804D3, the used prices are same as 803S and 803D, I think you really should try these out.  Just insist that the shop demo with a proper good amp.
- The Dynaudio Confidence is on par with or some say better than B&W 800 series
- Usher, never heard these in person but online review compare the Usher MiniDancer favorably to Dynaudio's Confidence C1 and you can get them very inexpensively in Taiwan!  The newer Usher line has DMD diamond tweeters.
faust168's avatar
faust168 OP
74 posts
 

Dear Hifineubee.

Thanks for your detail expression of your idea. You have caught my taste in audio & music almost like a tighten rope.  I haven't menioned the experience I had about 1 month ago when I paid visit to a Harbeth dealer and then went to the B & W dealer in Taipei with a hi-fi friend. We are astonished to find the new discovery on 2nd store, a pair of Maserati, made by B & W with the components of B & W 805 D3 together with the mark of the famous sports car.  The price (with stand with Maserati on it ) is US$12,000.  Generally, the 805D3's selling price is US$ 8,000 without stand. My friend ask the staff of the shop for a short listening with his CD disc, we were astonished to find how good the pair responsed.  The intergrated amp. is Macinitosh M8900. I forget the CD player brand, but the importance was the reproduction of very musical sound with the short listening experience. You can easily find out the good stuffs with a short listening with so many years of being an audiophile.  Many years ago, I also had shocked by a small pair of speaker name as Magico, a new Amercian brand when Hifi is still hot then. The book shelf speaker was shown on a rather small space, but the sound quality was the best I ever experienced. Of course, the price was pretty expensive either. I can't remember clearly, but it's priced beyond the imagination of the book shelf speaker.


I have heard 805D3 for a couple of times in the local dealer which the boss have almost 30 years experience in handling hi-fi gears and also he is a concert goers often. I have impressed by the sound it produced transparency, very good penetration, very fine instrument defination, and clear sound without muddy, very detailed, and the high frequency is beautiful and harmony in all the spectrum except the slight shortage of low frequency which is not solid or responsive. But that doesn't matter for the speaker protrayed very splendid sound reproduction with almost every kind of music (electric or heavy metal are exception for these are not my tastes).


The same shop also has 803D2 which I have listened for many times, but I have reservations for the coherence of the spectrum. I mean the intergration from low to high is not so well connected. 聲音的連結性不是很好, Maybe it is a good speaker, but I can't feel it's special features. Maybe I will call the shop next time if the speaker is still available. Last time, I take a short visit and find that the boss has changed to a pair 802D2 for demo. Generally, the boss uses Burmeister pre (expensive one) and the power plus the Burmeister CD player for audition demo.

Burmeister is a solid design, but it sounds like analogue, esp. in the hi-end.  It is interesting that the boss himself went to his shop to listen to Berlin Phiharmonic digital hall (he subscribed at 160 EU. as annual fee) with the equip. in his shop for better A-V effect. (He uses Sony's 9400 75" Hi end LCD TV as monitor.).

After many years of experience, he is quick in finding out problem with quick solution always.   His opinion about England speaker is the short of high frequency response. In another words, it is a bit dark in tweeter.  That is why Tannoy is selling super tweeter which is capable of enhance high frequency response with more fresh air..


I think I will consult with the boss's idea because I bought Accuphase A47 from him but in the begging period of time, the sound is so so. After 2 years of run in , it sounds much better now.  Generally, it still takes 2 hours of run before you can get better sound.


It is a long experience, though fun, but it is kind of money and time spending...


Best Regards,


You


   


   

hifineubee
56 posts
 
Hi faust, have fun demoing speakers and gear, it's half the enjoyment of hifi hobby.  I'd say look on the positive side that it's a lot cheaper than buying cars.  =)  I'm curious what the boss would suggest, let me know how it goes.
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