scientific double blinded cable test

garagesale:

To expand on the question? Has there ever been measurable speaker differences with different cables? ETC? Frequency response? Impedance? Has an amplifier ever displayed a different level of distortion using exotic power cables? As in does an amp begin 1% distortion at 100 watts with a stock power cable but managed 105 watts with an upgraded one?

This image shows 3 speaker cables all driving the same speaker.
Cables are Rega Duet, Bob Carver's Music Link and a protoptype.
http://www.ielogical.com/Audio/TriWireZ.jpg

Amps definitely show different response into loads with different wires. Some combinations will make a less than bulletproof amp shutdown or burn up.

It is possible that an amp may put out more level into a specific speaker / cable combination, but the difference between 100 and 105 is only 0.21db and would likely only affect very short peaks.

brianmoriarty:

Such a test would need to be performed in an ordinary room  with speakers placed in less than ideal positions as the average listener would have things.  Testing high-grade cables and low-grade cables of equal electrical properties,  Like 2 coathanger’s stretched out compared with whatever high-end cable Of the same conductance.

This was essentially the test I ran at AES in the 80's. It is difficult to get exactly the same LCR parameters for different construction. We used 12ga THNN 19 strand and a Monster Pro, also 12ga. Some who took repeated tests could tell better than 80%. Many who took the test only once got results far above guessing and some did worse than guessing. When results were tabulated, it was pretty well evenly split. Many of those who did poorly were firmly in the 'canbenodifference' camp. Unfortunately, we did not collect information as to whether the participants could felt they could reliably determine differences or not. Just as some are color blind or tone deaf, some are not able to hear subtle differences in phase and level.

Quincy Jones once said that we mix in the studio making 0.1db changes for a great many who have trouble hearing 10db. Truer words were never spoken.

“I think the reality is that many who maintain there are no differences between cables (or other things in audio) don’t want to deal with the personal and/or financial implications of such differences being real. Denying differences are possible is their way of avoiding those implications.“


LOL. I am over 100K invested in my setup and don’t have anything other than ordinary wires! I don’t need anything but ordinary wires because I bought high fidelity gear. If a 10K cable made a difference you can be assured I would have 4 or 5 of them. 

“This was essentially the test I ran at AES in the 80’s. It is difficult to get exactly the same LCR parameters for different construction. We used 12ga THNN 19 strand and a Monster Pro, also 12ga. Some who took repeated tests could tell better than 80%. Many who took the test only once got results far above guessing and some did worse than guessing. When results were tabulated, it was pretty well evenly split. Many of those who did poorly were firmly in the ’canbenodifference’ camp. Unfortunately, we did not collect information as to whether the participants could felt they could reliably determine differences or not. Just as some are color blind or tone deaf, some are not able to hear subtle differences in phase and level.”

>>>>>Huh? I doubt anyone could hear a significant difference between those two particular cables. I assume you were trying to portray Monster as a sort of high end cable. But perhaps not. I had some Monster Cable circa 1983 and frankly, it sucked. I did not say that to the head of Monster with whom I dined at CES some years later. In any case, as I’ve opined on more than a few occasions, a single test - even when carefully planned, thorough and performed by AES or any other illustrious group or person, means nothing when the results are inconclusive or negative. In other words you cannot draw any generalizations or conclusions. Of course, there are many reasons why a test can fail to achieve positive results, hence my rather dogmatic statement. The best laid plans of mice and men oft go awry. And things have changed a little bit since the 80s, you betcha. So that’s another reason not to use the example from AES for any cable debate.

Furthermore, I suggest more interesting tests would be (1) stranded vs solid core, (2) copper vs silver, (3) cryo’d vs non-cryo’d, and (4) one direction vs the other. Then, I predict, your results will not (rpt not) be inconclusive.

I will say I'm highly skeptical too. 

However, I can offer an anecdotal story inspired by nugat, who stated, "  It can’t be that difficult. Pharmaceuticals are tested that way. Either something works comparing to placebo or not. And the variables are really complicated there."

I knew a girl whose brother sadly had traumatic brain damage, and would get seizures without medication.  Well, somebody high up figured they could save money, generic is just as good.  It has to be.  It turned out if they gave him the generic medication, he would have seizures, if they gave him the name brand medication, he would not have seizures.  This was not an imagined difference, yet the generic was stated to be tested to be EXACTLY the same as the name brand.

So I am remaining open-minded on this, and I think it is fine if the debate continues.  At least from me, if I say, "I can't believe it," I'm only saying it sounds different from what I would expect, not attacking whoever is saying it and calling them a liar.

gdhal
 

In my view, it really shouldn’t be all that unreasonable to expect that this same someone who professes superiority could detect whatever it is he/she feels is superior in a blind test.

It seems to me that those who are clamoring for blind tests should be the ones conducting the blind tests.