Vintage DD turntables. Are we living dangerously?

rauliruegas

Dear @downunder : The SP-10MK3 is a great unit but the new Technics design comes with fundamental/vital characteristics/changes over the MK3 where the MK3 can't compete no matter what: the new Technics comes with a totally new motor design and now is coreless, its TT bearing is way superior, the TT platter is way better damped than the " ringing " MK3 and many other superior characteristics.

No, I don't have yet the opportunity to listen it but I don't need to listen to know its superiority and you neither.  (??)

It's the time to let it go the MK3 and MK2s.

Really?
With all due respect to this person, I cannot disagree more with this post.  Where to begin....first, people bear in mind, the drive architecture of the SP10R is cloned from the little brother SL-1200 G.  The new dc motor adds a second set of stator windings for increased torque and like the 1200G is coreless and brushless.  Both torque and power of the MK3 dc motor is measurably greater. The 10R bearing remains tiny compared to the SP10MK3's oversized bearing, its a toothpick.  The platter is multi layered, damped and dynamically balanced, like the Mk3, but weighs significantly less.  The power supply is switching type, not a proper linear power supply, which the MK3 has.  By the way, none of the stated factory specifications published by Technics thus far for the SP10R surpass the Technics Sp10MK3 technical bench specifications, nada = none.  By the way, those whom actually own one can confirm the SP10MK3 platter does not have unwanted "ringing" characteristics.  In my eyes, this makes it more of a new SP10MK2 v.2 per se, than anything else.

I'll be ordering a new Technics SP10R at some point for fun to compare and because I think its a neat refresh of an established benchmark, but need to make some room first! ;)  

Dear @ferrari275:


""" Really?
With all due respect to this person, I cannot disagree more with this post. Where to begin........................................... Both torque and power of the MK3 dc motor is measurably greater.... """

So what, each TT has its own design neccesities.


""" The 10R bearing remains tiny compared to the SP10MK3’s oversized bearing, its a toothpick. .....


Again, so what? are different TT designs.


""" The platter is multi layered, damped and dynamically balanced, like the Mk3, but weighs significantly less....... "


and?, the new one not needs higher weigth.


""" The power supply is switching type, not a proper linear power supply, which the MK3 has. """


So, for you the new unit comes with an " improper " PS? why is that.Could you explain about?. """

""" By the way, none of the stated factory specifications published by Technics thus far for the SP10R surpass the Technics Sp10MK3 technical bench specifications, nada = none. """

It does not needs to surpass it. Can you detect the differences in quality performance levels between 0.015% against 0.014% on w&f? can you detect the differences in quality level performance between -92db against -93dbs on signal to noise ratio? could you?


Sir, from where took you those conclusions in your whole statements?

Maybe from Chris .

The Technics pedigree not only did not changed but up graded from 1981 ( that was the year the MK3 was realeased. ) to this 21 century.

Sir, today is April of 2018 not 1984 or 1990.

Got it?

Btw, this is what Technics has to say about:


" 

the SP-10R. The new turntable combines Technics’ most advanced digital and analogue technologies, boasting the most impressive Sound to Noise (S/N)* ratio, rotational stability and flutter, and wow ratio of any of its turntables.

The exceptional SP-10R prototype features a new coreless direct drive motor and 7kg heavy platter, for outstanding audio quality.

Reference Class Turntable Promising Outstanding Results

The SP-10R features a brand new, coreless direct drive motor which, in addition to the two-sided rotor drive system that was used in the SL-1200G, boasts stator coils on both sides of the rotor, for a more powerful and accurate sound.

The heavy platter features a three-layer structure consisting of brass, aluminum die-cast and deadening rubber, just like the platter of the SL-1200G. By optimising the natural frequency of each layer, external vibrations are thoroughly suppressed resulting in a beautifully clear and crisp audio experience.

The SP-10R also features a new ultra-low-noise switching power supply, which, compared to a power supply unit using a transformer, is better at suppressing unwanted humming sounds and vibrations. The power supply unit is separate from the main turntable, preventing unwelcome noise from being transmitted to the turntable unit, for a sharper and clearer sound.

Introduction to the Market

Technics is working diligently towards an anticipated early summer launch for the SP-10R, and the new turntable will be interchangeable with systems using the SP10MK2** (released in 1975) and the SP-10MK3 (1981) – the two predecessors which have been highly evaluated by professional broadcasting stations and are still very much admired and used by many audiophiles world-wide. Technics also plans to market a complete turntable system based on SP-10R with a tonearm and other components.

– ENDS –  """

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

I do not like "switching" power supplies, switchnig are good for playstation or others commercial products, I have a feeling that they inject more spurious than quality, but mine are just ideas not substantiated by concrete facts.

If the engineers of Matsushita have decided for this type of power will have their good reasons, I do not think it’s just for greater material savings = greater gain .... in hi-end products is not tolerated to reason to economize.

If we analyze other examples, Linn in 1998 put on the market the CD 12 top-of-the-line player, which cost thousands and thousand of dollars and had "switching" power supply inside; in 2018 Naim produces separate power supplies with traditional components to make up-grading of its products from the cost even in these cases of thousands of dollars.

Every IHMO manufacturer has its own thinking on how to make the power supplies .... buyers should think only to hear and understand if improvements over old machines are audible instead of worrying about the technical performances.

I think we've had this discussion of switching PSs before on this thread, but maybe not.  Anyway, at that time I also pointed out that David Berning, the designer of Berning amplification products, has been using switching power supplies at least in his (tube) amplifiers for many years, certainly more than a decade.  Meantime, his products are much admired and not inexpensive.  So far as I know, no reviewer or end user has ever complained about switching noise or anything of that sort.  I have used (briefly) two of his ZH270 amplifiers in mono configuration to drive my Sound Lab speakers and detected no problem related to PSs.  Keep in mind that DB is a brilliant fellow and an innovative engineer; not all switching power supplies are created equal. So-called linear power supplies can also be crappy if badly implemented.

Dear @best-groove:  """  If the engineers of Matsushita have decided for this type of power will have their good reasons, I do not think it’s just for greater material savings...."""

agree with you and agree with @lewm too and additional makes no sense that a good switching power supply design can introduce any kind of " distortion " when the cartridge signal never and can't pass trhough it.

Yes, we are talking of Matushita group !.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.