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The Method of Tuning

System Playback has been evolving ever since the first stereos came out. Folks who have success can’t imagine listening to a system that has not been tuned, folks who haven’t been as successful in their listening tend to go off on their "snake oil" rants. People who buy from the "Recommended Component" list have their Plug & Play approach. The guys using measuring have their camp certainly, and there’s several other audio types out there that have their beliefs to add to the mix. Who’s correct? Well if we can remove our personal egos from this question, they (we) all are correct. The approach that you take as a listener is as legitimate as the next guys, to you. We try pushing our particular belief system on others because we are passionate about it. We have our likes and dislikes and we also have our own reasons why something does work or our blames why it doesn’t. The audiophile world has as many chapters as religious believers has denominations. It’s just the way our minds are built, you grew up on skippy, you peter pan, and you jiff. The audiophile world forgets sometimes just how many opinions and beliefs there really are, until they meet up on places like these audio forums and begin to mix this big bowl of ingredients together.

I’ve started this thread so I can share what I have learned through watching all these mixers turned on and being stuck in the bowl with each other and also from the point of view of someone who has "Tuned" many thousands of you, and have picked up on your own personal developments as masters of your own systems. So before we get going let me tell you something important. No one on the planet of listening "does" audio the way you do. You are unique, and you are a specialist when it comes to your audio adventure. You are all a salesman, because you want others to have that same level of success you enjoy. Audio reviewers, recording producers, component designers and end users are all in the same boat. You might have one or the other on a higher level than the rest, but that really has little relevance when your sitting there with your system and it’s just you and it.

What I would like to do with this thread is level the playing field and talk to you about the oldest technology in all of music (both playing & replaying). Tuning is the most basic and the most advanced technology in making fundamentals and harmonics work in support of each other and every single one of you (us) Tune. We may want to call it something else that sounds more HEA (high end audio) ish, but no matter what we choose to call it, it’s all about taking the audio variables and making them work together. This is what I have been doing all of my personal and professional life. This is also what you have been doing ever since you started to play or playback music.

Just some ground rules for this thread.

First have fun. No one gets anywhere in music if their not enjoying it. If your a sour puss, don’t be surprised if we call you out as one. Personally I don’t mind or care if your a sour puss or not, but speaking for myself, I only have so much time in the day, and if this thread gets too sidetracky & tacky I’ll have better things to do, like making music money, which is a ton of fun.

Second I’m a designer/manufacturer. I am Michael Green of RoomTune and Michael Green Audio. I would imagine over the years 10,000-15,000 Agoners have used my products, maybe more maybe less, maybe only 2 people here have bought some of my stuff. The point is we sell audio products and if someone happens to buy them from this thread don’t get all bent out of shape, sales happen. Also if other designers come up and share their ideas, again try not to get all bent out of shape. Every single one of you are going to have and or get ideas from this thread or about this thread, or about the length of my hair (lol). As far as I am concerned everyone who has a stereo system has a product they want to sell, either physical or intellectually. So? It’s all part of the same soup as far as I am concerned.

Third I and others who come to this thread are free to post long posts. Some topics are not one sentence topics, and this will probably be the case here simply because we will be talking all things audio. And I should throw this in, let me the OP decide if something is off topic.

And last, if I disappear don’t take it like I don’t care. I’m a busy son of a gun and sometimes need a week or 2 to get caught up. Lately I’ve been posting and boring you a lot up here, but when the bell rings for me I’ve got to answer. I work on the US during the day and overseas during the night so that only leaves room for cat naps at best. Everyone here is important and I respect that, and I apologize in advance for my tardiness at times.

I’m ready for some fun are you?

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net

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grannyring's avatar
grannyring
6,441 posts
 
Now you have gone too far! LOL! So speakers, both stand mount and tower, in the same room as furniture, are missing at least 50% of the soundstage and music? There is no hope and I am rushing to get a nice BOSE Wave radio. Just kidding. However, you now need to explain why wall mounting is better with furniture. How high? Higher than a floorstander I presume? I would think the negatives would outweigh the positives. Perhaps you are just giving us “suppose” hypotheticals that are not really true and I am taking your post too literally.
michaelgreenaudio's avatar
michaelgreenaudio OP
1,019 posts
 

Hi grannyring

Yep, I’m a terrible guy, I know. LOL.

Here’s a simple test you can do in your home, and I have many do, as they take one of my field trips. Put on a piece of music and enjoy it in your listening seat for a while. Now go back to that same piece and start it again only this time listen to it standing up. In most listening rooms with furniture and carpet, when you stand up you hear a completely different opening effect than when sitting down. Tell us what you hear if you want, but no need if you don’t. If you play that piece and slowly repeat sitting down and standing up you are going to hear how the room is reacting to the speaker/room/ear combo. You’d be absolutely amazed at how many people get a hold of me to make the speaker/room/furniture judgement call with them.

I did one of my field trips at a fairly well known HEA audiophile here in Vegas not too long ago. He had me come over to check out his gear and stuff that he had been working on, cool guy! He put on a cool piece of music and invited me to evaluate his system (let him know what I thought). I think he was expecting me to sit in the sweet spot and do all my thinking from there.. So, I listened and took in some cues. After I heard what was going on, I got up and started checking out his space so I could see (hear) where what I was hearing was happening. It took me about 3 minutes to see what was holding the recording back and what was working well, at least enough to get started. He invited me back to the chair to listen to his digital setup. I basically did the same thing. I believe that really puzzled him and it seemed maybe no one had ever done that with or for him before.

Grannyring, I think that so many HEA folks have got that mental picture of a system in their minds that they somehow forget what is going on with the physics of replaying a recording. The common sense factor gets thrown out the window, and somehow they try to create some kind of system that defies the natural laws of our world. My job as a designer is not to create a system of HEA looks or, if I may say, a Stereophile-ish cookie cutter stereo. My designing is all about reproducing the soundstage, and how to do it in a repeating consistent way. Looks of course is a big part of the hobby and I work with a lot of interior designers, but the hobby of listening comes down to one thing, that stage. It’s easy to get so into this thought of a HEA system and completely miss what a stereo is intended to do. Many of my system designs are obviously used in a dedicated sort of way with one listening chair and a SAM directly behind the listener, but not every audiophile lives inside of a Michael Green Audio environment. And many listeners end up frustratingly spinning their wheels when their soundstage is waiting for them.

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net

jafant
18,969 posts
 
Good to see you here -MG.

when are you going to update the music section of your forum?
I would be interested in reading about titles in rotation in your system.
Happy Listening!
michaelgreenaudio's avatar
michaelgreenaudio OP
1,019 posts
 

Hi jafant

Now that's the question of the decade! I keep putting in my request for 72 hour days, but so far the lord has not seen fit to grant it.

I do try to post them more on my facebook, but even then, it's not enough. What's even worse, is I have moved into a place so I could be on the strip and also close to the arts district here, where I plan to put some of my systems into the galleries. So (arrrggg) I've moved from my 6 listening rooms to this little space, which I'm enjoying but miss all the rooms. I have a feeling in the future I'll do more rooms here or rent a place above one of the art galleries on one of the streets here. BTW if any of you visit Vegas, come on the 1st Friday of every month and hang out with us on what is called "First Fridays". The town is completely restoring the off strip from Sahara to Downtown. I grabbed one of the Apartments down here so to be close to the action. The property manager was also nice enough to let me rent another apt here which I'm using for a wood curing space but will be putting another system in there for visitors as well when the space is not being used. Would be kind of fun to have a place where audiophiles could come to and have their own little private listening hang out, we'll see.

Anyway back to music, yep I'm pretty serious about getting my listening in. Last night was "Close to the Edge", the stage was huge. The electronic effects were coming from way behind me and then into the frontal area and then by my head and back behind me again. It reminded me of playing "wish you were here" where at lot of stuff starts behind you and come wushing onto the stage in front. I give a lot of credit to the SAM setup and the new Revs.

fun times in Vegas for sure!

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net

grannyring's avatar
grannyring
6,441 posts
 
You can see my system under virtual systems as an FYI. When I stand the music does sound different in three major ways.

- it becomes more centered on the upper bass and lower mids with female voice and instruments becoming lower in tone. The ambient air is lost and the music is happening below me. Details are lost. Darker sounding presentation.

- bass, especially mid bass is more pronounced. Not sure there is any more bass, but the absence of additional upper frequency detail gives that impression.

- less intimacy with the event. Sounds more distant.  

To me all or most of this is due to my ear’s relative position to the tweeter.
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