2. misc-audio
  3. 135443-110926

The Method of Tuning

System Playback has been evolving ever since the first stereos came out. Folks who have success can’t imagine listening to a system that has not been tuned, folks who haven’t been as successful in their listening tend to go off on their "snake oil" rants. People who buy from the "Recommended Component" list have their Plug & Play approach. The guys using measuring have their camp certainly, and there’s several other audio types out there that have their beliefs to add to the mix. Who’s correct? Well if we can remove our personal egos from this question, they (we) all are correct. The approach that you take as a listener is as legitimate as the next guys, to you. We try pushing our particular belief system on others because we are passionate about it. We have our likes and dislikes and we also have our own reasons why something does work or our blames why it doesn’t. The audiophile world has as many chapters as religious believers has denominations. It’s just the way our minds are built, you grew up on skippy, you peter pan, and you jiff. The audiophile world forgets sometimes just how many opinions and beliefs there really are, until they meet up on places like these audio forums and begin to mix this big bowl of ingredients together.

I’ve started this thread so I can share what I have learned through watching all these mixers turned on and being stuck in the bowl with each other and also from the point of view of someone who has "Tuned" many thousands of you, and have picked up on your own personal developments as masters of your own systems. So before we get going let me tell you something important. No one on the planet of listening "does" audio the way you do. You are unique, and you are a specialist when it comes to your audio adventure. You are all a salesman, because you want others to have that same level of success you enjoy. Audio reviewers, recording producers, component designers and end users are all in the same boat. You might have one or the other on a higher level than the rest, but that really has little relevance when your sitting there with your system and it’s just you and it.

What I would like to do with this thread is level the playing field and talk to you about the oldest technology in all of music (both playing & replaying). Tuning is the most basic and the most advanced technology in making fundamentals and harmonics work in support of each other and every single one of you (us) Tune. We may want to call it something else that sounds more HEA (high end audio) ish, but no matter what we choose to call it, it’s all about taking the audio variables and making them work together. This is what I have been doing all of my personal and professional life. This is also what you have been doing ever since you started to play or playback music.

Just some ground rules for this thread.

First have fun. No one gets anywhere in music if their not enjoying it. If your a sour puss, don’t be surprised if we call you out as one. Personally I don’t mind or care if your a sour puss or not, but speaking for myself, I only have so much time in the day, and if this thread gets too sidetracky & tacky I’ll have better things to do, like making music money, which is a ton of fun.

Second I’m a designer/manufacturer. I am Michael Green of RoomTune and Michael Green Audio. I would imagine over the years 10,000-15,000 Agoners have used my products, maybe more maybe less, maybe only 2 people here have bought some of my stuff. The point is we sell audio products and if someone happens to buy them from this thread don’t get all bent out of shape, sales happen. Also if other designers come up and share their ideas, again try not to get all bent out of shape. Every single one of you are going to have and or get ideas from this thread or about this thread, or about the length of my hair (lol). As far as I am concerned everyone who has a stereo system has a product they want to sell, either physical or intellectually. So? It’s all part of the same soup as far as I am concerned.

Third I and others who come to this thread are free to post long posts. Some topics are not one sentence topics, and this will probably be the case here simply because we will be talking all things audio. And I should throw this in, let me the OP decide if something is off topic.

And last, if I disappear don’t take it like I don’t care. I’m a busy son of a gun and sometimes need a week or 2 to get caught up. Lately I’ve been posting and boring you a lot up here, but when the bell rings for me I’ve got to answer. I work on the US during the day and overseas during the night so that only leaves room for cat naps at best. Everyone here is important and I respect that, and I apologize in advance for my tardiness at times.

I’m ready for some fun are you?

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net

128x128michaelgreenaudio
jafant's avatar
jafant
19,602 posts
 
Excellent! MG
good to read that the High End is returning to Vegas. I know that you will play your part in making it happen.
Happy Listening!
michaelgreenaudio's avatar
michaelgreenaudio OP
1,019 posts
 

Hi Grannyring

Your house has plaster walls?

If you were my client, based on what I am looking at and hearing from you, I would say speakers on the floor like you have them and not mounted on the wall. I like the area around the speakers and that your speakers are on platforms. Those are platforms correct?

I also love working with hardwood floors and you have done a great job of using the wood/rug arrangement. If you ever ran into things closing in a little or getting bright, I would have a few things to bring up on the vibratory side, but to me it looks like you have a certain sound you like and have tuned your system to that sound. I would probably want to have you do a couple of listening references for me and see if you want to explore making the system a little more variable, but that would mean changing out some of the equipment dampening you have done.

That said, that’s a cool looking rig you’ve got there sir. You’ve done a great job of putting things together. A system to be proud of and many hours of great listening. Now what’s for diner, I’m coming over.

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net

grannyring's avatar
grannyring
6,479 posts
 
The walls are common sheetrock and a new build. I am open to changing out equipment damping. System is very open sounding. However love to learn more about vibratory considerations.

I will  plan on reading all I can from your Tuneland. Am I the only one not able to access Tuneland with my Apple devices? I get this error “ Safari cannot open the page as a server cannot be found”.
It opens the site for a split second, then quickly goes to the error message above. Not something I experience elsewhere.

Thank you for the kind words! 
michaelgreenaudio's avatar
michaelgreenaudio OP
1,019 posts
 

Hi Grannyring

Oh, that's good news (the sheetrock). The floor, is it on joists or is it on concrete? Also if you don't mind can you email me a 360 view of the space.

I've also sent out an email to my IT, hopefully we can get this Safari loading figured out. I know recently the hosting company did a domain name change on TuneLand so I'm even wondering if this is the case. Any way it goes, we'll get it figured out.

On the vibratory side of things, absolutely! We will need to use your ears as my test equipment. If it's ok with you I will start a thread on TuneLand so I can keep track of where we are through pictures and words. Hopefully we can get the web thing figured out but in the meantime it will help me not loose info we share about your progress. Just let me know if that's ok first. thanks

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net

michaelgreenaudio's avatar
michaelgreenaudio OP
1,019 posts
 

25 years ago, the audio "experts" were telling folks to "kill the room". Of course you can’t really cut off a rooms acoustics. Can you imagine lol, if you some how turned off the room’s acoustics the room itself would collapse. There isn’t a home in all the Earth, that has walls, that doesn’t have pressure. On Earth pressure is an important energy conduit that helps to equalize the Earth’s surface. Yet the HEA’s trusty handbooks have said "kill the sound". The method of Tuning says "tune the pressure". The relationship between the speaker and room and the ear works the most efficient when they are all tuned together. Let me show you how this works.

I (RoomTune) took several bandrooms and did an experiment. We treated the bandrooms with regular direct absorption products and had the students hold a practice session. The sound wasn’t echoing anymore, but the music sounded dull, lifeless and it was hard to tune the instruments. It was also hard for the director to close his/hers eyes and point to the instruments that needed to be tuned up. We then took down the dampening panels and installed RoomTune. The room became sonically organized, more dynamic, and non-fatiguing, the students could now easily tune their instruments and when we did the close your eyes tests with the directors, they were able to point out any of the instruments. This was documented by UMI (united musical instruments).

When you place a speaker in a room, it takes on the character of that rooms "pressure". If you direct dampen that room you dampen the music content itself. It’s just like dampening the inside of a speaker. If you talk into a dampened speaker you will hear the sound of the fill material. Likewise if you walk up to an acoustical product using Guilford cloth or acoustical foam you will hear your voice dull. Same will happen if you talk into your stuffed cloth chair and sofa. And while your at it get down and talk to your padded carpet (don’t let your wife or friends see you). The same sound you hear your room’s fixtures soaking up are the same sounds that will be gone in your playback. Most rooms are like a variable version of LEDE, only it’s all around you. Your speakers, have been voiced to the factory’s dampening, diffusion, reflections, playback system and personal taste. If you have heavy stuffed speakers with not much sound when you tap on them, they are the most locked in sounding speakers and usually require more work finding the right place to put them per recording. They also are commonly the most revealing sounding "fixed" speakers on certain music but play fewer recordings, because they are so particularly voiced in. They can be heaven in the right room/right recording, and hell in the wrong/with the wrong.

Most of us have dealt with many different types of speakers in many different types of rooms and already know the obvious "the room/speaker/ear are all one". They all three are dependent on each other and are all three unique to every listener. When your at a buddies house or show and it sounds horrible just keep in mind to the next guy walking in it may sound the best he's ever heard. When you get past the "one sound system" stage in your hobby things start making more sense. One of the major realizations is listening subjectivity. When I hear someone say "that's a bad recording" or "that component sounds awful" I don't necessarily roll my eyes, but I'm thinking "to you". There's a few things in this hobby that I think are (no other way to put it) weird, and someone judging the sound for the next set of ears is one of them. That's absolutely a discussion for the beginners. You can be in this hobby for 50 years but if you make a judgement call for somebody else's hearing your in a different hobby than individual listening. Doesn't mean your wrong just doesn't make you right, for them.

On this thread you will see that tuning is for the individual. Maybe the rest of the room may enjoy an over all sound, but it doesn't have to be the case. Tuning is about being able to go anywhere.

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net

More to discover