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Absolute top tier DAC for standard res Redbook CD

Hi All.

Putting together a reference level system.
My Source is predominantly standard 16/44 played from a MacMini using iTunes and Amarra. Some of my music is purchased from iTunes and the rest is ripped from standard CD's.
For my tastes in music, my high def catalogues are still limited; so Redbook 16/44 will be my primary source for quite some time.

I'm not spending DCS or MSB money. But $15-20k retail is not out of the question.

Upsampling vs non-upsampling?
USB input vs SPDIF?

All opinions welcome.

And I know I need to hear them, but getting these ultra $$$ DAC's into your house for an audition ain't easy.

Looking for musical, emotional, engaging, accurate , with great dimension. Not looking for analytical and sterile.
mattnshilp
shadorne's avatar
shadorne
7,477 posts
 
@gdhal

Even harmonic distortion is pleasing. It is higher order odd harmonics above 7th which are not pleasing and harsh sounding.

It looks like the R-2R DAC has equal amounts of even and odd harmonic distortion. The 2nd harmonic being the most important. Above 7th odd harmonics is where it becomes disagreeable to the ear. If the audio is filtered at higher frequencies (most older NOS designs have gentle roll off from analog output filters) then the lower harmonics will dominate and it could sound subjectively excellent.

This might be the key reason R-2R sound could be preferred for the same reason tubes are highly regarded for their wonderful sound...

A complete lack of harmonic distortion is about as dry and clean sounding as it gets - the latest ESS DS chip has extremely low 2nd and 3rd harmonic distortion (-130dB in the mid range) which is exactly where you get most of the harmonious pleasing warmth in tubes. 
audioengr
3,282 posts
 

Not meaning or wanting to play on words here, but for clarification purposes, by "live" do you mean "authentic"?

By live, I mean when I play a live track, say a jazz performance in a restaurant, can I close my eyes and believe that I’m actually sitting in the restaurant?

Can I turn my back on the speakers and believe that there is a live performance behind me?

Does a good piano track sound like my Yamaha Grand Piano in the other room?

Steve N.

georgehifi's avatar
georgehifi
10,312 posts
 
TotalDac (bit perfect) outperformed by the delta sigma Bricasti SE in a friend’s system I listened to extensively. .
Funny you mentioned these two, we had exactly this shoot out for a whole day on a reviewers system at his place in the beautiful Blue Mtns on his Wilson Alexia MkII, Gryphon Antillion Evo Signature my passive pre. We also went direct, with the same results.
The Total dac was far better than the Bricasti in every area, even the owner of the Bricasti SE conceded, and is going to sell it to go to R2R.

Don’t get me wrong the Bricasti was lovely and sweet and smooth, but not exciting when compared, it had no jump factor like the Total, that snapped your head back in disbelief with some of the dynamics, and yet it still stayed sweet and smooth when needed.
You could hear deeper into the music because of this expanse from quiet to loud. And it gave all this to you not from the speaker but all around it with an image and depth that washed over you instead of directed from the each of the drivers of the speakers, as if the speakers weren't there in the room.

Cheers George
gdhal's avatar
gdhal
1,641 posts
 
shadorne - Even harmonic distortion is pleasing. It is higher order odd harmonics above 7th which are not pleasing and harsh sounding....
Hi shadorne. Thank you. Not all that long ago, Ralph (atmasphere) provided a wealth of information regarding harmonic distortion in this thread https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/full-detailed-sound-at-30-40-50-db (probably other threads to :) )

Your response is very much in line with what I’ve previously understood in this regard. In fact I understand there is "weighting" of distortion also at play. Noting that manufacturers typically provide "total harmonic distortion" and in some cases "intermodulation distortion", I had asked in that thread if manufacturer specifications could provide insight as to where the harmonic distortion is occurring. His response led me to believe "this can be tricky". Point is one may not readily be able to determine where the distortion is occurring, and may only be able to rely on subjective listening.

Your explanation certainly does make sense. Would you say then that the *implementation* is the dominant factor of listener preference between DS or R2R, or is the *distortion* now the dominant factor (again, in your opinion)?

Thanks.
audioengr
3,282 posts
 

The Totaldac was far better than the Bricasti in every area, even the owner of the Bricasti SE conceded, and is going to sell it to go to R2R.

This shows that in this system, one DAC beat the other.  Did they even use the same interface?  Was it USB or S/PDIF?  All of this matters.  Even 2 different USB interfaces will perform differently.   It does not prove that Delta-Sigma is inferior to R2R.

The devil is in the details, the implementation and design details, not the D/A technology IME.

Steve N.

Empirical Audio

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