The Method of Tuning


System Playback has been evolving ever since the first stereos came out. Folks who have success can’t imagine listening to a system that has not been tuned, folks who haven’t been as successful in their listening tend to go off on their "snake oil" rants. People who buy from the "Recommended Component" list have their Plug & Play approach. The guys using measuring have their camp certainly, and there’s several other audio types out there that have their beliefs to add to the mix. Who’s correct? Well if we can remove our personal egos from this question, they (we) all are correct. The approach that you take as a listener is as legitimate as the next guys, to you. We try pushing our particular belief system on others because we are passionate about it. We have our likes and dislikes and we also have our own reasons why something does work or our blames why it doesn’t. The audiophile world has as many chapters as religious believers has denominations. It’s just the way our minds are built, you grew up on skippy, you peter pan, and you jiff. The audiophile world forgets sometimes just how many opinions and beliefs there really are, until they meet up on places like these audio forums and begin to mix this big bowl of ingredients together.

I’ve started this thread so I can share what I have learned through watching all these mixers turned on and being stuck in the bowl with each other and also from the point of view of someone who has "Tuned" many thousands of you, and have picked up on your own personal developments as masters of your own systems. So before we get going let me tell you something important. No one on the planet of listening "does" audio the way you do. You are unique, and you are a specialist when it comes to your audio adventure. You are all a salesman, because you want others to have that same level of success you enjoy. Audio reviewers, recording producers, component designers and end users are all in the same boat. You might have one or the other on a higher level than the rest, but that really has little relevance when your sitting there with your system and it’s just you and it.

What I would like to do with this thread is level the playing field and talk to you about the oldest technology in all of music (both playing & replaying). Tuning is the most basic and the most advanced technology in making fundamentals and harmonics work in support of each other and every single one of you (us) Tune. We may want to call it something else that sounds more HEA (high end audio) ish, but no matter what we choose to call it, it’s all about taking the audio variables and making them work together. This is what I have been doing all of my personal and professional life. This is also what you have been doing ever since you started to play or playback music.

Just some ground rules for this thread.

First have fun. No one gets anywhere in music if their not enjoying it. If your a sour puss, don’t be surprised if we call you out as one. Personally I don’t mind or care if your a sour puss or not, but speaking for myself, I only have so much time in the day, and if this thread gets too sidetracky & tacky I’ll have better things to do, like making music money, which is a ton of fun.

Second I’m a designer/manufacturer. I am Michael Green of RoomTune and Michael Green Audio. I would imagine over the years 10,000-15,000 Agoners have used my products, maybe more maybe less, maybe only 2 people here have bought some of my stuff. The point is we sell audio products and if someone happens to buy them from this thread don’t get all bent out of shape, sales happen. Also if other designers come up and share their ideas, again try not to get all bent out of shape. Every single one of you are going to have and or get ideas from this thread or about this thread, or about the length of my hair (lol). As far as I am concerned everyone who has a stereo system has a product they want to sell, either physical or intellectually. So? It’s all part of the same soup as far as I am concerned.

Third I and others who come to this thread are free to post long posts. Some topics are not one sentence topics, and this will probably be the case here simply because we will be talking all things audio. And I should throw this in, let me the OP decide if something is off topic.

And last, if I disappear don’t take it like I don’t care. I’m a busy son of a gun and sometimes need a week or 2 to get caught up. Lately I’ve been posting and boring you a lot up here, but when the bell rings for me I’ve got to answer. I work on the US during the day and overseas during the night so that only leaves room for cat naps at best. Everyone here is important and I respect that, and I apologize in advance for my tardiness at times.

I’m ready for some fun are you?

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net

128x128michaelgreenaudio

On this thread it's time to compare 2 systems to see who's would be the best at playback.

System (A) or system (T)

System A consists of any combination of discrete componentry plus "factory tuned" speakers we choose with a $1,000.000.00 limit.

System T consist of a limit of $200.00 for receiver or integrated amp, $50.00 for CDP. $6,000.00 for tunable speaker/sub combo and another $6,000.00 for wires, cables, platforms, tuning blocks and acoustical treatments.

A couple of times on this forum comments have been made that there is no way the budget system can out perform the all class A million dollar all star system, but in doing the actual setups over the last 20 years system "T" has been chosen over 90% of the time (the 10% never took the challenge serious).

Your thinking "how can this be"? Well look back at what an audio system is. An audio playback system is an electrical, mechanical and acoustical audio chain (including environment), that host a variable signal. The signal itself is tunable because it is being hosted by physical conduits. When you have a system that is variably tunable playing a variable signal you are able to "tune" the system in to the signal, and the signal into the system. It works just like tuning instruments. When your looking at strictly performance, the best sounding componentry are the pieces that get along with the fundamental forces and not against them. A system for example that is in-tune and 3db up doesn't need over built crossovers, or chassis or heavy parts, it simply needs to play and play in-tune with the recorded code. If you tune your system to your recording and room, you will have an accurate reproduction of the performance.

HEA's version of playing music isn't necessarily the highest level of performance. In fact in most cases the HEA mega over built high buck systems have limitations that you don't find with "system T" types. One of these limits is when we are dealing with signal/field interactions. Another one is vibratory structure matching. And a huge one is speaker/room interfacing. HEA created a world that isn't needed to playback recordings more accurately and musical. Remember, not too long ago folks were saying "Kill Vibrations", "make a dead room" and "shield magnetic fields". All of these subtract from a recording's signal. These aren't necessarily bad things if your trying to focus in on a particular part of the recorded code, but if your wanting to open up that same recording you will need to be able to go in the opposite direction. In other words we're squeezing and opened up the signal to give different results in our soundstage. But where HEA went overboard is when they made units that squeezed the signal so much that it started creating sonic holes in the soundstage among other problems. In the end of all the squeezing you end up only being able to play fewer and fewer recordings with a believable sound.

You can take these same recordings and put them on a low mass system and tune them in to the point where you can virtually create any size stage you want and as well as much focus as you wish.

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net

Bad recordings Vs Non-playable recordings.

Back in the early 90's I traveled around showing reviewers how to tune in recordings. You might be surprised to hear this from me but go back and read about it in the Audiophile rags. Yep, Stereophile, TAS and the others didn't know recordings could be tuned. Or should I say that systems could be put in-tune to a particular recording. I spent 3 years traveling & tuning, showing folks that simple systems could out perform the more expensive over the top built ones. Some of you might remember me coming to your store. When I was allowed, I would do my talk in the ultra high end rooms, but also did a simple setup in usually smaller out of the way rooms with inexpensive systems the store had. I'm not sure the store owners were very happy with me at times, but the response to these setups, one sold tons for the store, and two showed another more practical side to the hobby. I remember back then the industry would try to separate the "audiophile cheapskate" from the HEA recommended components, but the truth of it was almost always the less expensive systems (made tunable) beat the tar out of the big boys. Back then I wasn't setting out to put down the expensive components, I was simply making the best sound. This became a source of conflict between me and the HEA to a degree, but I always knew things would work themselves out in the end. Ultimately audiophiles are going to come home to their first love, their recording collections and their favorite ways to play them.

Did you ever think about this, why do folks go to such pains to cry "Bad Recording" whenever their system can't play it? In the last 15 years this has gotten really out of line, to the point where folks have created their own out saying "my system is revealing" to the point that it can pick out bad recordings. My friends this is an HEA myth from hell and if you are stuck in it you could use an audio priest. Yep, there might be 1% of copies or recordings that have fallen between the cracks. And I'm not saying you might have bought that 1% in your life. What I am saying is, beside factory defects, chances are almost every recording in your collection is just fine. So why all the bad sound? That's a question you should be asking HEA. The answer is a simple one, if a system is not able to play a recording successfully it means that recording has not been "Tuned" to that systems setup.

If we took a field and built 1000 identical rooms and put a different system in each room, and took your "bad" recording and played it in those rooms that recording would sound bad like you've described in some rooms, but probably to your surprise that same recording would sound between Ok to audiophile approved in some of these rooms, maybe many of them. And I guarantee would sound fantastic with the tunable systems. How is this possible? Or the better question is, how has HEA failed to discover and teach you this reality? How can HEA sell you a component that is limited in playing back music? If you think your one sound system is able to judge recordings come on up to the check out counter, your done. HEA has successfully sold you your cats meow. But you know what, most of you would be lying through your teeth. Most of you are still going round in that HEA revolving sales door hunting for the next component. That's ok if your a component collector. But what about if you want to play that recording and your system is not allowing that to happen? Well some of you have bought several copies until you find one that works for you. But lets say the store is closed and your stuck with the bad sounding one? Again most of you are going to say, it's the recording and you would be right, at least half right. One of these things is not working. Either the recording is not working with your system or your system is unable to play that recording. That exact recording played on another system will sound fantastic, happens all the time, all day long.

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net

Hi Michael: This is getting interesting.

I think most acoustic engineers would agree that mounting your speakers in the wall solves the SBIR problem and provides a smoother low end frequency response.

Your bold assertion that “Mid-Fi” electronics can deliver great sound if the system is set-up well goes against the grain here. However, the fact the HEA is a declining hobby is in part a testament to that reality and a lot of people agree with you. HEA and the supporting ecosystem jumped the rails a long time ago.

I don’t think playback equipment can be divorced from recording quality since they both make up the system. Different speakers can put a different emphasis on a recording. My old Klipsch Heresy speakers are a good match to the old rock albums of the 70‘s and 80‘s. Play those same songs on my Sonus Faber speakers and all I hear is Billy Joel telling me I can get more milage from a cheap pair of speakers. To me, the impact of recording quality is self evident when you play CD’s from Blue Note or Chesky as a comparison.

I just listened to a YouTube presentation by Mark Waldrep https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5S_DI99wd8 talking about High Res Audio and there are clearly ways to screw up a recording. And those subtractions cannot be recovered even in a “tuned” system.

Hi Mike

Thanks for taking the time to post on this thread.

What you said is very important and is why I am here with this thread. The hobby has had enough time and experience now to move from a fixed approach "plug & play" to a variable one. For example, what if you had a 3rd option? You have the Heresy (great speakers) and you have the Sonus Faber (also great speakers). What if you could make the Sonus sound like the Heresy and vice versa? What if HEA was variable instead of fixed? Listeners walk into music shops every day and tune the instrument they are about to play. Once the paradigm shift happens from fixed to tunable, we will be looking back at speaker design (as a example) and wonder about the days when they were built for one sound.

Keep in mind I'm not saying a Gibson is a Fender, but what I am saying is they both need to be tuned to play the same note.


I'll take a peek at Mark's video, thanks.

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net