How much do I need to spend to get a preamp that sounds better than no preamp?

honashagen OP
How much do I need to spend to get a preamp that sounds better than no preamp?

$49 closest thing to going direct with a only potentiometer in the way.
http://www.schiit.com/products/sys

Or if you like to change the sound 3 different ways $699.
http://www.schiit.com/products/freya

Cheers George

honashhagen,
Many years ago Adcom had a pass thru line stage, touted as no coloration. I tried it with many amps. It did not seem to impart any color to the sound, yet something imho was missing. Well, not just imho... something was missing. The dynamics seemed compressed, and while there seemed to be minimal if any serious coloration to the sound (the bane of some preamps), there was also a lack of texture, space and fine detail. You know how when everything comes to life in music, the actual physical distance between the guitar and drums, the bass player... that was missing when compared to a good preamp. 
In fact the last comparison was putting a Gryphon Preamp, (very, very expensive) with any and all of the amps, all areas of aforementioned subtleties came to life. The preamp seemed to take the amp, even an Adcom 60wpc, to another level. It was a great thought experiment that I still remember more than 20 years hence.
So, I recommend a good preamp at whatever price you can afford... BUT experiment... you won't regret it.
Best,
Larry

Hi Ben, from the responses, it seems the sound of a preamp is quite dependent on the system and personal preference. I tried something yesterday that I have tried at least 20 times previously, with the same result. I know, the definition of insanity, right? I replaced my unity gain buffered preamp with a Goldpoint passive. At first, I really enjoyed the quiet background, nice tone, clarity, and purity, but after about 5 - 6 songs, I had the familiar sense that something was missing. I reinstalled my active/buffered preamp and.....Technicolor! The preamp had the same attributes as the passive but added tremendous body, dimensionality, and tonal density that made the music sound more "real."
Since you asked about what level of quality it takes to improve the sound over a passive, here are my thoughts.

• The passives I own, have owned, or have tried on an extended basis include, Goldpoint balanced passive, Endler Attenuators balanced, Adcom GFA-750 (mentioned in a previous post), and a Bent Tap type preamp using autoformers - Acoustic Imagery’s JaySho.
• My active/buffered preamp discussed above is a custom pre from Steve McCormack of SMc Audio, based on the TLC-1 platform modified with many improvements from Steve’s VRE-1. While it does not provide gain (unity gain) the signal is buffered and the preamp uses the VRE-1 choke power supply, a custom attenuator with AN Tantalum resistors, special Lundahl transformers (for a balanced signal), and more.
  
• I have tried more than 20 (tubed and SS) preamps in my system and the SMc preamp is the best I have heard. Several of the preamps had a list price north of $10K. My second and third preferences were Tom Evan’s Vibe and Pulse and Lamm’s LL2 Deluxe, both single-ended units.

Like you, I also own (but don’t currently use) one of Steve’s upgraded amplifiers that you can see on my system page. If you can stand not having remote control, I would recommend discussing options with Steve. IMO, the preamp is really that good and would match well with your upgraded DNA-1. If desired, Steve can design the preamp with +6dB gain from the transformers.  You can mention my preamp, which is pictured on his website. He also has other options he has more recently developed.

Last night I think I talked myself into thinking my new pass preamp was sounding good. I was fooling myself. It still sounds too forward to me. I really want to like it.

honashagen OP38 posts04-30-2018 8:02amLast night I think I talked myself into thinking my new pass preamp was sounding good. I was fooling myself. It still sounds too forward to me. I really want to like it.

Your Oppo has an output impedance of 100ohms, it will drive the 100kohm input of the DNA-1 in it's sleep, and just about anything else.
And the Oppo at 2.1v out for RCA and 4.2v out for XLR. It easily has enough v gain for your DNA-1 poweramp, which only needs 800mV (.8v) in to give it’s full output wattage!!!!. As you can see, you don’t need anymore gain from an active preamp. Just look at the maths?

Here is what Nelson Pass regards as his best sounding preamp, he says he can’t belive it didn’t make him filthy rich, and yes it’s totally passive untill the volume control hits 3 o’clock, then it becomes active for those that need the extra gain, "most likely because many of his poweramps are very low gain" but he also does say you take a hit in sound quality when 3 o’clock and over are used when it becomes active.

Yes your going to say, but he makes $$$$$$ preamps.

He’s not a fool he likes to make money, passives don’t make money because you can’t sell them for $$$$K I prove that.

" Nelson Pass:

The Aleph L is a single ended Class A audio preamplifier combining new design thought
applied to traditional topology and the experience of twenty five years of amplifier design.
This preamplifier flows from a commitment to create the best sounding product: a simple
circuit with the most natural characteristic. The Aleph L integrates discrete Mosfet gain
devices and single ended Class A operation in a simple active/passive topology in order to
deliver the most natural sound possible. The Aleph L absolutely minimizes the number of
components in the signal path, and uses these only when necessary.
Unique to this preamp, patent pending, is a volume level control which combines the best
qualities of a passive attenuator and active gain circuitry:
At the 3 o’clock volume control position, the Aleph L offers a direct path from input to output.
The only component in the signal path is wire and switch contacts.
At positions below 3 o’clock, the volume control functions as a precision passive attenuator
using discrete resistor ladders.
Above 3 o’clock, active gain is added to the output signal in 2 decibel increments, for a
maximum of 10 dB.
As a result, you suffer the effects of active circuitry only when additional gain is necessary.

Another quote from him

Nelson Pass,

"We’ve got lots of gain in our electronics. More gain than some of us need or want. At least 10 db more.

Think of it this way: If you are running your volume control down around 9 o’clock, you are actually throwing away signal level so that a subsequent gain stage can make it back up.

Routinely DIYers opt to make themselves a “passive preamp” - just an input selector and a volume control.

What could be better? Hardly any noise or distortion added by these simple passive parts. No feedback, no worrying about what type of capacitors – just musical perfection.

And yet there are guys out there who don’t care for the result. “It sucks the life out of the music”, is a commonly heard refrain (really - I’m being serious here!). Maybe they are reacting psychologically to the need to turn the volume control up compared to an active preamp."

Cheers George