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Vandersteen Sub woofers v Rythmik Subs

I really love the idea of the Vandersteen Subs where they are connected with the mains via extra speaker cable off right and left channels off the main amplifier, which is supposed to provide better bass transition from the mains while keeping the signature from the main amplifier. My question is with Vandersteen coming out with the SUB THREE and the price going significantly higher, I was wondering if there are other subs for less that you could integrate in the same way. (Most subs seem to rely on the line level input which is just a sub-woofer RCA going from the pre-amp to the amp on the sub). Can this same Vandersteen set-up be achieved with other subs?
I picked Rythmik since they are known (in the home theater community anyway) for being one of the best bang for the buck subs and the most "musical" of the bunch. (between Hsu, SVS, PSA).
And could I possibly achieve even greater sub-woofer nirvana since I could get an 18" for around $1500? Vandies only have 3 eight inchers.

I am a Vandersteen fanboy and I would like to support RV whenever I can, but don’t know much about my other sub-woofer options so looking for some feedback. Doesn’t even have to be related to Rythmik necessarily. If you know of other subs that can integrate the same way I want to know about it!

Thanks
bstatmeister
ieales's avatar
ieales
1,201 posts
 
The sub farm is an interesting concept, but I suspect phase coherence may leave a lot to be desired.

Phase coherence will determine the quality of the bass. The farm concept will definitely smooth out the level or quantity, but at the expense of phase or quality. DSP would be mandatory.

Vandersteen makes excellent products, but some of the sub parameter choices seem odd.

First rolling the bass off before sending to the sub requires additional EQ in the sub and EQ means more phase shift.

Since there is no phase control, physical positioning is critical. IMO, both a phase control AND a phase invert are mandatory.

The XO is limited in frequency selection and will have a rather large range. eg, a 55k input will xo @ 132Hz and a 100k input will xo @ 73Hz, almost an octave! IMO, step size should be about 10Hz for subs.

A bunch of dip switches in the circuit are a very bad idea. NO connector is inaudible.

It appears the filters are 1st order which sum in theory, but may not so well in practice.

For a saga on sub integration see http://www.ielogical.com/Audio/SubTerrBlues.php/ and http://www.ielogical.com/Audio/#SmallestThings for my passive XO design. C = 1 / ( 2 * π * f * R )

wspohn's avatar
wspohn
597 posts
 
I have used the 2W quite successfully to fill in what smaller monitor main speakers lack in the low bass - still own one, though not currently in any of my systems.

I don't need a sub for my main system (20Hz capability) but nonetheless added a couple of Hsu VTF-15H Mk 2 to that system for bass reinforcement in video use ad I have been impressed with them for both clean bass and adjustability.

I've thought about putting the 2W in the Martin Logan CLS system, but it is a challenging thing to get a sub that augments an electrostatic panel and is fast enough to match them.  One of these days.....
tomic601's avatar
tomic601
12,880 posts
 
Interesting ......RV might be the only designer who cares about phase....

the 11 EQ frequency were picked for probable room nodes, not 1/3 octave or every 10 HZ

for those with M5-HP: the 7 filters while not inexpensive do offer an upgrade path

yes in theory a DIP switch has a sonic thumbprint, the M7 amplifiers eliminates that and a host of other issues, I can attest, the combo is sublime....
lewinskih01
909 posts
 
Some subs have controls to allow for phase correction. My Rel had some adjustability in this regard, and the Rythmiks offers plenty. Of course one needs to be able to measure and adjust and have plenty of patience to get right, but well worth it in my opinion.

Audio always entails tradeoffs. The best speaker design also includes tradeoffs. The trick is to wisely pick which tradeoffs are ok to let go. In my experience the sonic signature of a connector is orders of magnitude less important than getting room acoustics right, and getting sub 80Hz right is key to good room acoustics.
sonicjoy
146 posts
 
Absolutely right! Low bass is the hardest and most important thing to get right. Especially in smaller rooms with dimensions less than the wavelength of the lower frequency's. Until you solve the room issues in the low bass it will be very hard to get the rest of the spectrum to sound good. Standing waves will muddy up the mids and highs. I am still working on that myself as I have just moved and in a new room with (interesting) new issues.  
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