What's happened to the used high end market recently?? Sales are tough....:0(


The heading says it all!! What do you guys think is the reason that the sales in the used high end market have gone soft??
Prices too high? Economy too slow?? Stock market too volatile?? Something else??

Thoughts....
128x128daveyf
While it may appear that the $10k/pair price point is ‘hot’ right now, somehow I doubt that holds true for used gear! 

@daveyf 

I suppose that depends on the unit.  I'll agree that the used market is probably more price driven than the new market, a good value is a good value.  I wouldn't consider a pair of speakers that retail for $12,000 to be a good value at $10,000 used, but a pair of speakers that retail for $20,000 for $10,000 used could be (if the age and condition are appropriate).    

I'd wager that at minimum any used item should have at least a 25% discount from new retail price, and that's if it's in perfect condition with all original accessories such a buyer's remorse trade-in or dealer demo.  Make it a few years old and it shouldn't be any more than 50% of new retail.  Go to ten years old and it should drop even more. 

Of course, really hard to find specialty products could buck that, and while I window-shop in the for sale section here, the asking price is higher than I think is fair for a lot of it.  That's fine, people can ask whatever they want for something, and I'm not going to insult anyone with a lowball offer, I'll just keep my eyes open until the right deal surfaces for something that I want at a price I think is fair.  

There's a pair of Revel Salon2s on sale here for $8,000, which is an amazing price, but the ad is rife with misspellings and typos, the photos aren't as illustrative as they could be, and there's something off about the tweeters - they're at minimum missing the twin wire guards they should have, not sure if they're even the original OEM tweeters because of that.  If I lived in the area where I could go see them in person I'd certainly go do that, but that's too much risk for that much money for me from a distance.
As usual I have a different take on things.When I was a teenager back in the 1970's,there was this speaker they took ads out for in the Stereo magazines.It was a tall tower speaker, unusually tall, even.Instead of one midrange and tweeter, it had a whole vertical row of midrange and tweeters.I forget how many.It was a little unusual in price too.It was a little more than $2,000 a pair which back then was a little pushing it, but that made it special a bit. Me and my friends would pick up the magazine and gawk at the full page ad depicting it,over and over.Remember how as a child you would look through toy catalogs over and over again.It was the same stuff pictured but each time you looked through it was a new experience.It was great fun.We would read the ad type over and over too.It recommended some LP's that would be good to hear on this speaker.It was well beyond the finances that your average teenager had at his disposal, but like the toy section of the Sears catalog it was fun to dream; and perhaps most importantly, it was not totally out of reach.High School would be over in less than a year.Factories would be hiring.If your parents would put up with your living at home a few extra years; it wouldn't' be that hard to save some money,who knows.You might just be able to swing it. 

 None of us ever did get to buy that speaker.Some of us could've at some point, but it would have cramped our style to spend all that money in one shot. It felt good to have some dough put away, but every now and then we let our mind wander and sort of flirt with the idea.We could, but at that point we probably knew that we shouldn't'.But it was fun to dream and flirt with the idea of it.

 Fast forward to now.A young person picks up an audio magazine and looks at the ads and reads the reviews.The dream stuff isn't really just outside your reach anymore.It would take five years to save that kind of money.Once it was saved, looking back on all the self sacrifices you had to make over such a long time as 5 years, you wouldn't' feel like spending it.Back in the 1970's It might have taken you a year of sacrifice at an age you really don't feel like compromising anything, but it was at least a possibility.But saving for 5 years to buy a speaker that costs $10 grand.It's just too far outside the reach.The thought in most cases just isn't taken seriously; its dismissed.There are plenty of other things to spend money on instead.

 If manufacturers want to get young people interested; they simply have to give them something to really dream about at an early age.Something that's just out of reach,but not out of reach too far or they will just go to something else to spend money on.They say our teenage years are our formative years.We develop personalities, values and start trying on for size what we really like in life.They say our basic personalities formed then,for the most part stay with us throughout life; and so do our basic desires, likes and dislikes.Give young people something to dream about,to go for, that's not too far out of reach.There is an occasional person who is impressed by a big price tag, but most squawk at it; wondering if its not a ripoff,but for the masses some dreams not too far out of reach will do.Once an audiophile, an audiophile for life; often anyway.Isn't that enough incentive?

@supertweak. Yours is the best post on this thread (and there are some great posts on this thread) that I have read and in my opinion, by a country mile!

To say that I couldn’t agree with you more would be an understatement!

I think you just summed up the whole problem with the HEA hobby and the main reason why most youngsters are not buying into it...well done!!

Doesn’t explain the recent lowering of activity on the used market, ( at least I suspect not),but it sure explains the overall lack of interest in the younger gen.
+1000 on your post.
@daveyf 

no offense intended but the contention from some that the high end is suffering because there isn’t much for sale on audiogon or better still, because they cant sell their technics or onkyo amp at 75% of retail is not convincing. If you observe economic theory properly, the absence of salable inventory on the used market indicates a robust environment. In the old days of audiogon, the sold items would stay posted for a while which gave everyone an idea of what was happening. Now, unless you are watching closely, an item can be listed and sold and then disappear in 10 minutes.