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Talk but not walk?

Hi Guys

This isn't meant to start a fight, but it is important to on lookers. As a qualifier, I have my own audio forum where we report on audio issues as we empirically test them. It helps us short cut on theories and developing methods of listening. We have a wide range of systems and they are all over the world adding their experiences to the mix. Some are engineers, some are artist and others are audiophiles both new and old. One question I am almost always asked while I am visiting other forums, from some of my members and also members of the forum I am visiting is, why do so many HEA hobbyist talk theory without any, or very limited, empirical testing or experience?

I have been around empirical testing labs since I was a kid, and one thing that is certain is, you can always tell if someone is talking without walking. Right now on this forum there are easily 20 threads going on where folks are talking theory and there is absolutely no doubt to any of us who have actually done the testing needed, that the guy talking has never done the actual empirical testing themselves. I've seen this happen with HEA reviewers and designers and a ton of hobbyist. My question is this, why?

You would think that this hobby would be about listening and experience, so why are there so many myths created and why, in this hobby in particular, do people claim they know something without ever experimenting or being part of a team of empirical science folks. It's not that hard to setup a real empirical testing ground, so why don't we see this happen?

I'm not asking for peoples credentials, and I'm not asking to be trolled, I'm simply asking why talk and not walk? In many ways HEA is on pause while the rest of audio innovation is moving forward. I'm also not asking you guys to defend HEA, we've all heard it been there done it. What I'm asking is a very simple question in a hobby that is suppose to be based on "doing", why fake it?

thanks, be polite

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net


michaelgreenaudio
uberwaltz's avatar
uberwaltz
13,381 posts
 
Of course we don’t know what we don’t know and we never know what we are missing until we hear it.
I do not think many here dispute the fact that room acoustics play a huge part in our journey.
I do know that a fair number are also in the situation where due to location of the music system that alterations to said room just is not going to happen unless they like sleeping outside afterwards!

However I think the biggest problem was with how MG came across to various members, his attitude was very condescending to say the least, downright arrogant at times if truth be told.
There were some very good questions that were the most part ( unless they fit into his viewpoint) ignored or derided.
Not a particularly great way to "win" your audience over.
It may be on his own forum he is a little more open and free but I do not think many members who read this thread will bother to find out.
glupson
7,842 posts
 
prof,

Thanks in advance and no hurry. If and whenever you feel like rewriting, I will appreciate. I asked just because I saw it in one of your posts. I have lived without anything even similar to as much as a curtain for a few decades so I may make it without something new for a few more, I hope. As you may notice, I am not that big on tuning, tweaking, or even walking the walk. But I can talk with the best of them. If forced, I can even do poetry for stereo equipment chatroom, but do not like to be the second best so I will skip that.

I was serious about the looks of your equipment. It does look serious. In one of your threads you asked about importance of equipment looks. As much as sound. I have had 4 (four) amplifiers in my life and I belong to the group that knows what Hi-Fi means. My first one, during the teenage years was Rotel RA-414. My current one is....it is impossible not to guess. I bought it because of looks.
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
uberwaltz
Of course we don’t know what we don’t know and we never know what we are missing until we hear it.

I do not think many here dispute the fact that room acoustics play a huge part in our journey.

I do know that a fair number are also in the situation where due to location of the music system that alterations to said room just is not going to happen unless they like sleeping outside afterwards!

>>>>>I feel it’s only fair to point out that Michael Green’s methodology of Tuning, and I say this after discussing it with him at some length, you know, like every day for two years, which might actually be some kind of record, involves more than room acoustics. Much more.

For example, some of his ideas I use myself, either by coincidence or because I thought it was a very good idea, include isolating the transformer from the chassis, MG goes so far as to remove the transformer and place it somewhere else, removing the cover of my former Oppo 103, suggested also by Ric Schultz of EVS, and using the low mass concept for the system. My particular system, not counting isolation stand that comes in at around 60 pounds, a hot rod Walkman CD Player, weighs all of 10 ounces, not counting headphones and cable that add another pound, mostly due to carbon fiber sleeves on headphone cable. In fact I don’t even address room acoustics, a big advantage of going to headphones. Plus There’s a huge sonic benefit to going off the grid as one might imagine.

Noah Cross to Gittes: “You may think you know what you’re dealing with, but, believe me, you don’t.”

Made the scene 
day to day week to week
hour to hour
the river is deep and wide
break on through to the other side
break on through to the other side
uberwaltz's avatar
uberwaltz
13,381 posts
 
I do not believe I said that was ALL there was to MG tuning methods?
That particular snippet of my post just happened to reference that as an example and why some just cannot/will not entertain that portion even for starters.

The thread did have the makings of being interesting for the right reasons, however I stand by statement that he went about it the wrong way and that ended up driving its downfall, sad to say.
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
Oh, well, I guess the take away from all of this is you can’t please everybody. OK, what’s next? We got the Black Fuse, the Blue Fuse, the Graphene super conductor, and the Tuning. What’s next? Please don’t start a thread on some mysterious hum you can’t get rid of or what’s up with high prices for cables. 
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