Avalon Indra vs Sonus Faber Cremona M

Not to mention that they are tonally excellent and are easy to drive and all of your components to shine though.

I also listened to the Isis and it is a larger version of the Indra (or vice-versa). Listening to each one in the appropriate room size, I could not tell the difference between the two.

I will say this, however, they did not sound nearly as magical with CD (what does) versus vinyl.

I listened to the Isis on a shindo/VTL setup with a I believe the top of the line Naim CD player. Very nice CD sound, but my 500$ turntable with a decent LP sounds much better and really exploits the strengths of the Indras.

All in all a very special and very heavy product.

As they say in Italian, complementi!

Bob, are you seriously talking about the Naim CD 555?

I am by no means trying to be inquisitional or sarcastic as I can sense your passionate enthusiasm, but in case you are referring to the CD 555, can you please tell me what your turntable/arm/cartridge is? I may want one of those for myself.

I am not one for analyzing things in great detail verbally. I basically walked into this business trusting what I like or not.

I approach my wine drinking the same way...I have long ago stopped talking about notes of vanilla, cherry and spice, and come to love and appreciate a well made and "unfake" wine (there are lots of those out there, but that is a whole other discussion).

My turntable is actually the first turntable I have bought, an extremely humble Pro-Ject expression II for 500$.

I will never forget the first time I hooked it up to my previous system and played the same song on vinyl and CD (on an equally humble Harmon Kardon CD player). Only a deaf person could not tell that the old vinyl copy was clearly superior. At first, it sounded "weird" since I was used to digital sound for years, and that was because it sounded like real instruments, more detailed, more dynamics, etc...

Curious to learn a bit more, I even took my turntable to the dealer, and compared it to a 5000$ clearaudio setup. Yes the clearaudio was a bit better , but price is price, and I was surprised that the difference was not far more pronounced.

When I returned to the CD player in that awesome setup, I guess all the shortcomings of the digital medium were revealed .

I actually wondered if an extremely detailed and transparent system may actually be a wrong choice for CD/digital...maybe if digital is your primary source, you would want a euphonic system (like Sonus Faber Cremona M's with solid state). Just a thougt.

So there you have it. I do not think it is a matter of a 30-40000$ CD player being "beaten" by a humble 500$ record player. I think it is a matter of the vinyl medium, with decent play back, to be a "better" and truer medium than CD.

By the way, those that say bass is better on CD vs vinyl...I think the bass on CD sounds a bit artificial. I saw Metallica live, and even that bass did not sound like what is on CD's... The vinyl gets it better and more accurately, to my ears anyway.

So, after these experiences, I basically am not using my CD player and with at least 3 vinyl stores in my area supplying all the music I need...Well, there you have it.

Dear Karel,

I just saw your system! Wow...as a newbie, I am wondering how you can listen to CD!

Bob

Hi Bob,
I was genuinely curious about your TT since I always like to discover things both on the analogue and the digital front. Allow me to make a "vinous" comparison as well: I am not interested in drinking labels or Parker points - the most horrid idiot on that scene - and so I think I can perfectly understand if one just unerringly "feels" one thing is better than another that may be way more expensive. One must just allow the thought to enter one's own mind.
Just a few more things to show you where I'm coming from:
You think vinyl is the inherently better medium; I wholeheartedly agree!
You remark in particular that vinyl is better on low frequencies; I obviously agree!
On top of that there is of course the fact that most - mainly, but sadly not only "popular" music - CDs are disastrously engineered especially in terms of dynamics (in the past we have seen a few decades of crappy vinyl productions as well admittedly)
You wonder how I can listen to CDs; now there my resounding answer is AMR CD-77!
... and productions such as the ones from Fonè (just found out that recording "wizard" Giulio Cesare Ricci has a small vineyard btw), ACT, Stockfisch, Tacet, Chesky etc. So, that's why I also firmly believe CDs don't necessarily kill the music.
Happy listening!
Karel