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Talk but not walk?

Hi Guys

This isn't meant to start a fight, but it is important to on lookers. As a qualifier, I have my own audio forum where we report on audio issues as we empirically test them. It helps us short cut on theories and developing methods of listening. We have a wide range of systems and they are all over the world adding their experiences to the mix. Some are engineers, some are artist and others are audiophiles both new and old. One question I am almost always asked while I am visiting other forums, from some of my members and also members of the forum I am visiting is, why do so many HEA hobbyist talk theory without any, or very limited, empirical testing or experience?

I have been around empirical testing labs since I was a kid, and one thing that is certain is, you can always tell if someone is talking without walking. Right now on this forum there are easily 20 threads going on where folks are talking theory and there is absolutely no doubt to any of us who have actually done the testing needed, that the guy talking has never done the actual empirical testing themselves. I've seen this happen with HEA reviewers and designers and a ton of hobbyist. My question is this, why?

You would think that this hobby would be about listening and experience, so why are there so many myths created and why, in this hobby in particular, do people claim they know something without ever experimenting or being part of a team of empirical science folks. It's not that hard to setup a real empirical testing ground, so why don't we see this happen?

I'm not asking for peoples credentials, and I'm not asking to be trolled, I'm simply asking why talk and not walk? In many ways HEA is on pause while the rest of audio innovation is moving forward. I'm also not asking you guys to defend HEA, we've all heard it been there done it. What I'm asking is a very simple question in a hobby that is suppose to be based on "doing", why fake it?

thanks, be polite

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net


michaelgreenaudio
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 

prof
geoff,

I suggest that you’ll have a much better chance to engage someone in actual dialogue if you sloooow down and read more carefully.

>>>>I’m a speed reader. I also have excellent comprehension.

If necessary, I suggest running your forefinger slowly beneath each line of text so that you don’t miss anything.

>>>>Oh, a wise guy!

When you understand someone’s point before replying, you are less likely to waste your and anyone else’s time creating the phalanxes of frothing strawmen that you rage against. And, who knows, we could maybe actually have a discussion!

>>>>>I acknowledge you’re the master of frothing Strawmen, professor. I thought we were having a discussion. What have we been having?
cd318
2,636 posts
 
@prof  Your experience at the dealers is one that is shared by more than a few of us.

You take time off work, and may travel a considerable distance (100k in my case, don't laugh but UK is not the US) to get to listen to pair of speakers that you know must be great. They were designed by a legend in the industry, they've been reviewed well in the press and the dealer is a very nice guy. You really want to like them and they should sound great but they don't because you can hear slight but definite coarseness where the tweeter crosses over to the bass. So disappointment follows.

As you said, if you were a newbie you might not hear it if you've abandoned a critical mindset. Then you've either got to do the return journey or put up with the issue. You could even try tweaking and waste more time and money. Whichever path you pursue more disappointment will surely follow you. 

I imagine that for most people audio is but one way to pursue relaxation (sometimes stimulation). Stress free as far as possible. As much fun as possible. And for me as much tonal density as possible!

At some point we want to stop chasing magic and get off the roundabout to smell the flowers. Hi-Fi can be like a marriage, enjoy what you have but it doesn't mean you aren't allowed to look occasionally! 
geoffkait's avatar
geoffkait
23,365 posts
 
cd318
The entire history of tweaking has achieved nothing but lead all and sundry who followed down blind alleys where they were effectively blinded by pseudo science and often mugged of not inconsiderable amounts of money.

>>>Whoa! What! OMG! Sounds like someone’s system wasn’t resolving enough.

If people believed in too much instead of too little they would generally be much better off.
- PT Barnum

glupson
7,842 posts
 
Does anyone know what "pseudo skeptic" means?
glupson
7,842 posts
 
geoffkait,

"Walkman is for those who walk the walk, not those who only talk the talk..."
As you just declared me a person who walks the walk, could you please take it into consideration if you ever think of implying the opposite.

And I wouldn’t be at all surprised if both of you actually did them.
I am not sure if you would be surprised that, for a very simple reason, I have never done a blind test of anything. At least in relation to audio.
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