Hi Tj
Can you imagine how much fun we would have if you lived here!
:)
Talk but not walk?
Hi Guys
This isn't meant to start a fight, but it is important to on lookers. As a qualifier, I have my own audio forum where we report on audio issues as we empirically test them. It helps us short cut on theories and developing methods of listening. We have a wide range of systems and they are all over the world adding their experiences to the mix. Some are engineers, some are artist and others are audiophiles both new and old. One question I am almost always asked while I am visiting other forums, from some of my members and also members of the forum I am visiting is, why do so many HEA hobbyist talk theory without any, or very limited, empirical testing or experience?
I have been around empirical testing labs since I was a kid, and one thing that is certain is, you can always tell if someone is talking without walking. Right now on this forum there are easily 20 threads going on where folks are talking theory and there is absolutely no doubt to any of us who have actually done the testing needed, that the guy talking has never done the actual empirical testing themselves. I've seen this happen with HEA reviewers and designers and a ton of hobbyist. My question is this, why?
You would think that this hobby would be about listening and experience, so why are there so many myths created and why, in this hobby in particular, do people claim they know something without ever experimenting or being part of a team of empirical science folks. It's not that hard to setup a real empirical testing ground, so why don't we see this happen?
I'm not asking for peoples credentials, and I'm not asking to be trolled, I'm simply asking why talk and not walk? In many ways HEA is on pause while the rest of audio innovation is moving forward. I'm also not asking you guys to defend HEA, we've all heard it been there done it. What I'm asking is a very simple question in a hobby that is suppose to be based on "doing", why fake it?
thanks, be polite
Michael Green
www.michaelgreenaudio.net
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@uberwaltz. I was not referring to you really. A little bit of healthy skepticism coupled with your humor is just fine. I grow weary of the long and repetitive argumentative posts from folks who really just need to move on as they will never enjoy this thread. That’s fine if they can’t learn or agree with MG and others here. However, why continue to derail the thread and waste our precious time as some of us would like to expand our knowledge here. Constantly trying to put a negative spin on someone’s motive and methods is just not what these threads are meant for. Today it seems many think it is exactly what these forums are for. |
grannyring wrote, ”I grow weary of the long and repetitive argumentative posts from folks who really just need to move on as they will never enjoy this thread.....However, why continue to derail the thread and waste our precious time as some of us would like to expand our knowledge here. Constantly trying to put a negative spin on someone’s motive and methods is just not what these threads are meant for.” >>>>>Eggs Ackly! And we have a name for them. Pseudo skeptics. It’s been that way since audio forums were invented. Leave it or live with it. If it looks like a duck, talks like a duck, walks like a duck, it’s a duck! 🦆 You don’t even have to look up the definition on Wikipedia. Pop quiz! Is time real or simply a construct of man? If there were no clocks and watches would time still exist? |
amg 56..here is how and why it works..and with further additions pertaining to strapping caps.. theaudiotweak1,676 posts05-16-2018 9:48amSpeakers cones generate shear and polarities of shear before they generate a pressure wave. Thats how speakers work. Polarities of shear on a cone for example travel on all surfaces of the material shape..they also travel thru that material shape. The speed and direction are much determined by that material and shape. Shear can return to the point of emination or the wave launch..this is what we call interfering energy. There are ways to eliminate this interference in vibrational objects that re corrupts the original intended signal. Some methods are easy to see and hear others must be dealt with in new and unique ways or just a new look and understanding of what had always been there. And it has always been there..The best method is the use of a select material contoured with no 90 degree angles and contains a shape angle where shear can be rejected and not allowed to re enter. Some here wish to cancel or eliminate all polarities of shear. If you do so you will reduce all amplitudes of the resulting sound wave. Selective identification of shear polarity and its return into the signal path is what is crucial. Kill all shear..no sound. Resonators work because they capture a pressure wave and change that motion into shear. The size, shape and material's shear velocity determine the sound and perceived quality of the acoustic waves output off of that solid object.Thats why brass, gold and silver objects of the same exact shape generate a different sound out come. Also that's why most everytime you see resonators they are attached to a solid surface or very near the surface. There is an action reaction between a flat material surface :drywall: and a resonator where the pressure wave that impacts the wall and becomes partially shear and travels thru that solid :drywall: That now altered pressure wave encounters a resonator of some size shape and material alters how the molecules of that original pressure wave actually reacts and sounds to our ears brain and body. This continual rotation between compressive and the shear world is what makes sound..and what makes things sound different. Our ears are also shear generators because of material structure and shape we each interpet the compressive wave in a similar but unique way. Oh and then there is the skull and bone structure and mass. Later on..Tom and then my response to the tie down of caps..for that matter anything. You can interchange the word drywall above for the words horrid,glue and sawdust below. The following applies to all material surfaces especially 2 or more dissimilar materials of varied shapes. Adjusting the surface tension changes the surface shear speed of the materials ..becoming either separate,combined or somewhere in between. The result is more or less interfering energy being transferred back and forth between these surfaces in intimate contact or from the compressive world onto a solid then becoming shear. So in many examples of using gucci caps tied down to horrid materials made of sawdust and glue you will have the sound of that cap altered for sure by the larger mass of the material it is forced upon. The size and mass of the same substrate will also give you a different result.The tie down material will also become part of the sound of the cap. As we know vibration is all around and cannot be isolated. We can make vibration a useful tool and most pleasant. Just need to know the why and how..Tom .. Star Sound Technologies and Tone Acoustics |
Michael, You still do not understand that I do not understand why or how your explanation works. I am NOT playing engineer here, hence my repeated request for further information. I WANT to understand but you are reluctant to be forthcoming with information that can be useful to posters. Do we need to attend your Temple to be enlightened? I would have thought that these forums, post topics are there to find out and share information on all subjects audio. Why is it so hard to understand? It seems perfectly plain to me. Come to AudioGon, ask a question, search for an answer, if someone make a statement or something that seems out of normal or controversial, why is it so wrong to ask for the writer to seek explanation? Isn't why AudioGon exists? |
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