Thiel Owners

Hi dancastagna,
I've got an all Thiel HT setup with very similar speakers to yours (MCS1 center, 2.7s fronts, PCS surrounds, Powerplanes rears, and 4x Higherplanes up top) except for a Martin Logan Descent sub.  It had a much more modest beginning with an Anthem AVM20 powered by their MCA50s: 180watts all channel driven at 8ohms, up to 265watts at 4ohms.  The amps were, IMHO, just adequate to drive the previous 2.4s and then the 2.7s.  I have since added Bryston 28-SST2s to power them and it was a world of difference.  The soundstage improved significantly, which I would attribute to improved upper-range bass response.  It just filled out the image better.  The MCA50s have been relegated to center channel and surround duties, which I think are perfectly fine (except maybe the center but I wasn't about to spend thousands of dollars on a matching Bryston just to power a channel I use less than 30-40% of the time.  Maybe someday...).  Sonically, I like the Anthem and chances are if I upgrade, I may get the AVM60 even though it's no longer manufactured in Canada--they're crafted in Vietnam now. FWIW, everyone who comes to watch a movie at my house are simply amazed at the sound.
As for the sub, the Descent is perfectly capable of movie duties, but I find it better suited to music since the bass it produces is nice and fast.  I've read that there are a few other unique subs that would simply leave others in blockbuster rubble, such as Seaton SubMersive F2, PowerSoundAudio T18HT, and Funk Audio 18.3 (haven't auditioned any of these in person).  But alas, I don't have a budget for both a high end 2-channel system AND a dedicated high end home theater.  Ironically enough, ever since I got the Brystons and opened up the Thiel 2.7s, I've been listening a lot more to 2-channel sound.
Regarding your question on 2 subs vs. 1, the issue of standing waves is much more prevalent with having a single sub.  Depending on your room, it can be a big issue or a small one.  Having 2 subs can really reduce that problem and give you more consistent sounding bass.
Let us know what you end up doing with your system.

Hi tomthiel,
You had mentioned that Jim used flat Goertz speaker cables for the 3.7 development.  If I'm not mistaken, in one of the PCS speaker reviews, he had the reviewer use their AG3 Divinity cables which changed the reviewer's perception of the sound.  These appear to be their top of the line--did Jim use these in particular for developing the 3.7s?  While I don't spend a lot on my speaker cables, I do understand that there is a material difference between silver, which is what the AG3s are made of, and copper.  Do you have any insight into why Jim chose silver?  I imagine he must have used copper and decided to go with silver due to some sort of shortcoming with that material, but that's complete conjecture on my part.

There were a few posts regarding positioning, so I will post my experience.  I started with the Thiel speaker manual and positioned my 2.7s in the beginning about 8 feet apart, 2.5 feet away from the wall, and I sat about 9 feet away.  I noticed that the soundstage opened up a bit more when I moved them a little further apart to about 8.5' (perhaps because I was sitting 9' away) and toe'd them in slightly.  Unfortunately, there are a lot of reflective materials in my living room that I cannot remove, and I can clearly hear the impact it has on the sound (slightly stronger sound emanating from the left side due to reflections).  Sometimes I just like to walk around when I listen to music, imagining the sound stage in the front.  And as others have mentioned, the height at which the ears are make a difference to the sound.  Still, the Thiels do a great job of keeping it centered and broad even if there are subtle difference as I walk around, sitting down or standing up.  By the way, I noticed that the difference between my system and other, cheaper mainstream systems is when I turn up the volume and walk into an adjacent room, the sound is still crystal clear, as if the singer was performing there.  The quality of sound from lesser systems are more muffled and don't project as well.  Just an interesting observation.

I should think the speaker set up track on XLO Test CD and similar is independent of speaker brand or type. That’s the beauty of it. Hunting for the perfect speaker locations for using trial and error or even using a diagram is practically guaranteed to obtain local maximums only. Usually, all things being equal, speakers should be placed closer together than one might predict a “sensible” distance. The more diffuse the sound using the out of phase track the larger and more correct the soundstage will be when the system is in phase. There is no guesswork with the speaker set up track. Trying to find the locations by ear is like trying to solve x simultaneous equations in x + N unknowns. 😩

Thielrules, the drivers were damaged, so yes.