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Talk but not walk?

Hi Guys

This isn't meant to start a fight, but it is important to on lookers. As a qualifier, I have my own audio forum where we report on audio issues as we empirically test them. It helps us short cut on theories and developing methods of listening. We have a wide range of systems and they are all over the world adding their experiences to the mix. Some are engineers, some are artist and others are audiophiles both new and old. One question I am almost always asked while I am visiting other forums, from some of my members and also members of the forum I am visiting is, why do so many HEA hobbyist talk theory without any, or very limited, empirical testing or experience?

I have been around empirical testing labs since I was a kid, and one thing that is certain is, you can always tell if someone is talking without walking. Right now on this forum there are easily 20 threads going on where folks are talking theory and there is absolutely no doubt to any of us who have actually done the testing needed, that the guy talking has never done the actual empirical testing themselves. I've seen this happen with HEA reviewers and designers and a ton of hobbyist. My question is this, why?

You would think that this hobby would be about listening and experience, so why are there so many myths created and why, in this hobby in particular, do people claim they know something without ever experimenting or being part of a team of empirical science folks. It's not that hard to setup a real empirical testing ground, so why don't we see this happen?

I'm not asking for peoples credentials, and I'm not asking to be trolled, I'm simply asking why talk and not walk? In many ways HEA is on pause while the rest of audio innovation is moving forward. I'm also not asking you guys to defend HEA, we've all heard it been there done it. What I'm asking is a very simple question in a hobby that is suppose to be based on "doing", why fake it?

thanks, be polite

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net


128x128michaelgreenaudio
glupson
7,842 posts
 
jf47t,

I may be a troll, or I may not, as that term seems to be applied very liberally. I do not understand why we would be denied pictures of something described in details on this thread, but so be it. However, given that Pioneer receiver was mentioned, too and at least three people showed interest in learning about it, it should not take much to mention what was done to it and what model it is.

Everyone pushes their ideas on Audiogon forums and some subtly, or less subtly, even advertise their products. That may, if not exaggerated, be helpful to participants as they learn about what is mentioned. However, using a thread on one website to steer people to another website could be described as poaching. It may not be illegal, but is surely not a gentlemanly activity. Not to mention, asking participants from this particular thread to migrate to Tuneland seems self-destructive. They have had very firm and logical questions that would shake much stronger theoreticians than those who provided answers here. Do you really want a sanctuary like Tuneland to become a sad sight defending itself only by "they are all trolls, they are all trolls"? Most of the people on this thread have nothing against very existence of Tuneland and, from what it seems, they have shown quite a courtesy not to infiltrate there.
jf47t
116 posts
 

Hi Prof

I believe Michael serves his purpose best by pointing readers to where the real Q & A’s are. Once this thread got past the first few pages it turned into not much more than examples proving the OP to be accurate. I’ve come up to give examples of the listening I’ve been doing meanwhile Michael has been posting on some engaging threads on TuneLand that get into much more depth which obviously attracts MG over a circle of who is a troll and who isn’t. Michael is always very busy "walking" as anyone can see who wishes to on MG’s facebook or forum or by visiting. Might I suggest this prof, if you look at TuneLand and don’t see any posts deleted because of internet trolling wouldn’t it be fair to conclude that MG has no interest in internet trolling. If Michael Green was interested in threads that do trolling why does he not have this behavior on his forum? Prof the characterizations being made here about Michael are easy to put to the test by looking at his forum to see if internet trolling is a pattern there. Obviously it is not. MG engages in deep audiophile discussions on TuneLand full of pictures and solid interacting. So Prof the mods here have been excellent at spotting the trolls and limiting their forum destructive patterns. Your painting MG as a troll or Audiopoints attempts at....whatever only has to go as far as to look at TuneLand for the reality of what Michael Green Audio does and what Michael Green the person does has done and is doing. Words pictures drawings tests reviews real time referencing plus others’ experiences all over the world past and present. You guys have been trying to go up against one of the most documented personas in the history of HEA. You can try but all your really doing is making MG’s presence known even more.

I believe the Mods in other words are more hip to what is going on than you give them credit for.

mitch2
4,091 posts
 
@jf47t 
You seem to be trying too hard.
I suggest taking it slowly, conducting a self-assessment, identifying the triggers for your sensitivity (i.e., somebody suggests MG is not walking or Robert's posts refuting MG's version of history), exploring your emotions through journaling (maybe start a blog on TuneLand), letting go of the little things, maintaining a positive outlook.  Happy walking...

glupson
7,842 posts
 
In case anyone is interested, Pioneer receiver in question is sx4300. Yes, I did go to Tuneland to see. Click-bait, or not. From what can be seen on the picture, it is an older receiver with cover removed. No other signs of modification can be seen on those pictures as they are not showing inside clearly. There is also an older Magnavox DVD player nearby and that one also seems to have cover removed. I have not noticed any electrocuted cats. In fact, it was informative to go to Tuneland for those pictures as now I learned how that room looks like. It irresistibly reminds me of sauna. Lots of light-colored wood.

On the other hand, I would strongly recommend that those who find Michael Green's approach on this thread not to their liking or standards not go there. For the benefit of Tuneland and for the benefit of people on this thread who may get ballistic reading it. I read a few posts, they are long, and I have to say that Michael Green there does not appear as the one here. I prefer this one here, though.
jf47t
116 posts
 

"I may be a troll, or I may not, as that term seems to be applied very liberally. I do not understand why we would be denied pictures of something described in details on this thread, but so be it. However, given that Pioneer receiver was mentioned, too and at least three people showed interest in learning about it, it should not take much to mention what was done to it and what model it is."

Geoff you need to wake glupson up lol

glupson lol can I pick on you a second? Have you even gone up to visit TuneLand? The Pioneer SX4300 is on full display there along with MG’s walk through the system he just did for me. Quite frankly I wouldn’t be surprised to find that a hundred or so people have scored on MG’s recommended tuning components. That’s probably being very conservative.

On the other question you pose about TuneLand again wake up. Internet forums interact and interchange info non-stop. TuneLand sends readers here and Audiogon sends readers there. Glupson that is how the internet works. It wasn’t designed to be a bunch of independent islands but more millions of boats and ships traveling to and from those islands. Each one of those islands have a different theme style and info exchange. For example the Audiogon forum is not big on words and pictures together on threads whereas TuneLand is all about pics & words. Audiogon has a marketplace system TuneLand doesn’t. Everyone of these audio forums is like visiting for vacation as well one or two becomes home base.

glupson TuneLand doesn’t have to fend off internet trolls because TuneLand would never have internet trolls it’s not that kind of forum. An internet troll would look pretty stupid and out of place on TuneLand.

PS just saw your post above

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