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Talk but not walk?

Hi Guys

This isn't meant to start a fight, but it is important to on lookers. As a qualifier, I have my own audio forum where we report on audio issues as we empirically test them. It helps us short cut on theories and developing methods of listening. We have a wide range of systems and they are all over the world adding their experiences to the mix. Some are engineers, some are artist and others are audiophiles both new and old. One question I am almost always asked while I am visiting other forums, from some of my members and also members of the forum I am visiting is, why do so many HEA hobbyist talk theory without any, or very limited, empirical testing or experience?

I have been around empirical testing labs since I was a kid, and one thing that is certain is, you can always tell if someone is talking without walking. Right now on this forum there are easily 20 threads going on where folks are talking theory and there is absolutely no doubt to any of us who have actually done the testing needed, that the guy talking has never done the actual empirical testing themselves. I've seen this happen with HEA reviewers and designers and a ton of hobbyist. My question is this, why?

You would think that this hobby would be about listening and experience, so why are there so many myths created and why, in this hobby in particular, do people claim they know something without ever experimenting or being part of a team of empirical science folks. It's not that hard to setup a real empirical testing ground, so why don't we see this happen?

I'm not asking for peoples credentials, and I'm not asking to be trolled, I'm simply asking why talk and not walk? In many ways HEA is on pause while the rest of audio innovation is moving forward. I'm also not asking you guys to defend HEA, we've all heard it been there done it. What I'm asking is a very simple question in a hobby that is suppose to be based on "doing", why fake it?

thanks, be polite

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net


128x128michaelgreenaudio
glupson
7,842 posts
 
In case anyone is interested, Pioneer receiver in question is sx4300. Yes, I did go to Tuneland to see. Click-bait, or not. From what can be seen on the picture, it is an older receiver with cover removed. No other signs of modification can be seen on those pictures as they are not showing inside clearly. There is also an older Magnavox DVD player nearby and that one also seems to have cover removed. I have not noticed any electrocuted cats. In fact, it was informative to go to Tuneland for those pictures as now I learned how that room looks like. It irresistibly reminds me of sauna. Lots of light-colored wood.

On the other hand, I would strongly recommend that those who find Michael Green's approach on this thread not to their liking or standards not go there. For the benefit of Tuneland and for the benefit of people on this thread who may get ballistic reading it. I read a few posts, they are long, and I have to say that Michael Green there does not appear as the one here. I prefer this one here, though.
jf47t
116 posts
 

"I may be a troll, or I may not, as that term seems to be applied very liberally. I do not understand why we would be denied pictures of something described in details on this thread, but so be it. However, given that Pioneer receiver was mentioned, too and at least three people showed interest in learning about it, it should not take much to mention what was done to it and what model it is."

Geoff you need to wake glupson up lol

glupson lol can I pick on you a second? Have you even gone up to visit TuneLand? The Pioneer SX4300 is on full display there along with MG’s walk through the system he just did for me. Quite frankly I wouldn’t be surprised to find that a hundred or so people have scored on MG’s recommended tuning components. That’s probably being very conservative.

On the other question you pose about TuneLand again wake up. Internet forums interact and interchange info non-stop. TuneLand sends readers here and Audiogon sends readers there. Glupson that is how the internet works. It wasn’t designed to be a bunch of independent islands but more millions of boats and ships traveling to and from those islands. Each one of those islands have a different theme style and info exchange. For example the Audiogon forum is not big on words and pictures together on threads whereas TuneLand is all about pics & words. Audiogon has a marketplace system TuneLand doesn’t. Everyone of these audio forums is like visiting for vacation as well one or two becomes home base.

glupson TuneLand doesn’t have to fend off internet trolls because TuneLand would never have internet trolls it’s not that kind of forum. An internet troll would look pretty stupid and out of place on TuneLand.

PS just saw your post above

glupson
7,842 posts
 
jf47t,

Please do not direct people from here to Tuneland. It is not nice. Tuneland obviously has different clientele. Crowd here is way more analytical and more into "walking". Posts on Tuneland are long winding poetry (by Michael Green), call it "talking", and responses from other "tunees" read as if they are staged/fake. You do not want guys from this thread there. They would have a field day. It is better that everyone stays in her/his own little yard. Michael Green can come back here from time to time, he is much better here than there.
glupson
7,842 posts
 
jf47t,

The sad fact is that I informed people what receiver is in question before you did. I guess I woke up first.  I should not mention those modifications that people were also asking about.


There may not be trolls on Tuneland for more than one reason. Here, whoever you call trolls, found it engaging. Could it be that on Tuneland, they cannot find anything as engaging? I have always praised Michael Green for starting this thread. It takes some talent/skill/feel/whatever else to do something so inflammatory. Now, when we are talking about Tuneland, I went only through one thread (the one with pictures of the room and Pioneer receiver). Maybe other threads are different, but that one had no deep discussion I could find. There were lots of deep words and almost-philosophical monologues, but not much in a way of healthy discussion. Some will like it. It could be made into a lecture.
glupson
7,842 posts
 
jf47t,

By the way, how is that Pioneer receiver plugged in the wall? The pictures are a little unclear, but it looks as if it is just wires stuck in the outlet. Is there some trick to that? Lower outlet, the one receiver appears to be plugged in, is orange while upper is white. What is the story with different colors?
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