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Talk but not walk?

Hi Guys

This isn't meant to start a fight, but it is important to on lookers. As a qualifier, I have my own audio forum where we report on audio issues as we empirically test them. It helps us short cut on theories and developing methods of listening. We have a wide range of systems and they are all over the world adding their experiences to the mix. Some are engineers, some are artist and others are audiophiles both new and old. One question I am almost always asked while I am visiting other forums, from some of my members and also members of the forum I am visiting is, why do so many HEA hobbyist talk theory without any, or very limited, empirical testing or experience?

I have been around empirical testing labs since I was a kid, and one thing that is certain is, you can always tell if someone is talking without walking. Right now on this forum there are easily 20 threads going on where folks are talking theory and there is absolutely no doubt to any of us who have actually done the testing needed, that the guy talking has never done the actual empirical testing themselves. I've seen this happen with HEA reviewers and designers and a ton of hobbyist. My question is this, why?

You would think that this hobby would be about listening and experience, so why are there so many myths created and why, in this hobby in particular, do people claim they know something without ever experimenting or being part of a team of empirical science folks. It's not that hard to setup a real empirical testing ground, so why don't we see this happen?

I'm not asking for peoples credentials, and I'm not asking to be trolled, I'm simply asking why talk and not walk? In many ways HEA is on pause while the rest of audio innovation is moving forward. I'm also not asking you guys to defend HEA, we've all heard it been there done it. What I'm asking is a very simple question in a hobby that is suppose to be based on "doing", why fake it?

thanks, be polite

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net


128x128michaelgreenaudio
jf47t
116 posts
 

Glupson

"Forums are, by their nature, talking. They are inevitably a written form of communication which is also "talking"."

This is actually incorrect. Forums usually use words, drawings and pictures to illustrate points. Since you and others asked to be shown answers from Michael he was courteous enough to start a thread dedicated to this topic. You can see Michael is happy to communicate in the manor you and the others requested. Michael uses TuneLand, Skype, Periscope live streaming and YouTube (more videos coming this fall supposedly) as well the Get Tuned Gain visits audio shows to meet and greet with folks in person.

Glupson this is the topic of audio. Using only words as you can see and have participated in is limiting at best. The very OP has been twisted and turned by words, but now this topic has an opportunity to become more useful. As Michael has pointed out from the very beginning this thread will prove the OP to be on target. And it certainly has. You yourself being one of the main characters. This thread serves as a good example for others as they converse with you in the future just as it will with all of us.

glupson
7,842 posts
 
jf47t,

"Forums usually use words, drawings and pictures to illustrate points."
I tried to find anything but words on Audiogon forum, but no success.

I am hardly a character here, but I will take a credit. Even a negative one. You can take fame, though.

Original post failed to recognize one simple thing. There are different ways to approach most of the things. Many have pointed it out in different ways, but essence has been the same.

It is unrelated to tuning, but is related to music reproduction and even recording, yesterday, or the day before, I ran into a youtube video. It is quite clearly a promotional stuff, but also gives an insight in how people work. The man talks a lot, but does not seem to be faking too much. His approach to the room he is recording other musicians in is more of a "well, I got used to it" and the room is, even to me, suspicious at best when it comes to acoustics. It was surprising, but he does have some credentials when it comes to music reproduction so be it.

I have a hard time believing that none of the Michael Green suggested ideas work, but I feel the way they are presented, and attitude that comes with it, is not doing them a favor. I think that asking for real scientific (formulae, graphs, etc.) explanations will not be useful in this particular case. It will just expose that Michael Green has no answer of that kind which, I think, is just fine. Forcing him to do it, and him trying to come up with something resembling explanation using "scientific" terms is neither fair nor useful. He freely admitted he has no PhD in physics and that he is not wired that way, if I can use that term. At the same time, just dismissing anyone who asks more exact questions is not valuable, either. Neither approach brings anything that can be used for conclusion in this case.
jf47t
116 posts
 

Glupson

Your assuming MG has no PhD in physics. Just because someone chooses a more organic approach to life doesn’t mean they haven’t the formal training as well. My friend you are way off when it comes to Michael. You have no idea what kinds of testing MG does or has been a part of. MG does not dismiss anything. He does however discern when someone is being real with him or faking it. Your wanting to call that no answer I’m sure is fine by him. If you say you haven't visited where MG is supplying the answers, with pictures, words and proof there would be a question of hypocrisy cast on you. There's a big difference between not giving answers and someone refusing to look at them. Glupson at least for me you have painted your character in this thread quite well. As we all have.

http://tuneland.forumotion.com/t440-talk-but-not-walk-an-audiophile-forum-case-study

theaudiotweak
2,797 posts
 
I never said I worked in recording. I have been in a studio and concert hall when cellos have been recorded with the benefit of my endpins and acoustic coupling discs. Tom
jf47t
116 posts
 

Hi Tom

Yes the weather statements didn't make much sense, no matter what materials are being used. To use equipment of any sort outside of it's recommended climate is a no no, brass included. It's also interesting that you work with cellos yet don't have a healthy respect for wood as a musical tool.

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